FaceHead
FaceHead
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 01:22:37
I recently heard from a friend that ocelot had posted a similar topic somewhere but I had no luck finding it so I will make it here.
The more i listen to and immerse myself in this music it seems all too common to hear artists pumping out the same tired ideas that were once unique. For instance one day some guy iin his bedroom decides that glitchy sounds are really psychedelic to him then other people catch on hey this guy is on to something then before you know it there is a whole subgenre of this style. In this case all subgenre means is people liked the idea and decided to copy it in their own way. Now dont get me wrong in using glitch as an example im not knocking it i just thought that would be a very obvious example of this. All of us producers should sit down till we make a sound we like not like a sound then sit down and make it. If you are doing that all you are doing is filtering your influences through your brain and spitting them out the other side with a new name on them. Every single one of us is an entirely unique organism. We have lived unique lives experienced different things we all look different act different talk different and so on. So then why is it that we are making music that is anything less than totally unique. Now it would be one thing if we were making pop music but we are supposedly contributing to the psychedelic culture boring people with 10 hours straight of been done before sounds will kill this whole mess that we love so dearly. I understand the human need to be accepted can get in the way. It sucks to get up there and play a set that people dont get, but if you arent being courageous enough to forget about your fear of rejection and forget about pleasing the crowd then things can never change. You have to push on make something that not only moves you but is something that cant be copied because nobody else in the world is like you. If you want to be an artist you must create art. Just because someone can take a picture does not mean they are a photographer. Anyone can learn how to lay down a psy trance beat make some scratchy synths ad a weird quote then slam eveyone goes crazy your ego is gets a cattle prod right to its epicenter which in turn is causing your brain to flood you with all of this chemistry that makes you feel like you are on top of the world. But is that what its about or is it about making art promoting creativity and being able to live knowing that you lived your life by your standards creating things that only you could create and inspiring others to do the same. I could go on with this forever because this is the only thing that keeps me going is the hope that there will be an turn in the way things are headed before it is too late.
Anyway i more want to hear everyone elses thoughts on this I already know my own. I challenge you all to go home and make atrack that sounds nothing like what you usually make and i dont mean go make a chillout track instead of a fullon track I mean really dig deep into your think sacks and pull out your most original ideas. New approaches to bass new approaches to rythm new approaches to percussion a new approach to everything that makes up your track. Then Lets post them here in the form of mp3s to help inspire anyone stuck in a rut. Lets throw some kerosene on this bed of hot coals that we are poking at now.
:chuck:
bandarlog
Bandarlog
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809
Posted : Mar 26, 2008 01:39
FaceHead
FaceHead
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 01:39
oh ya i dont want people to think this is a ploy for forum users to get free mp3's i really truly just want nothing more than to see us stepping outside of our comfort zones and trying something new so if ou ar enot comfortable posting your ideas thats ok too i just want to know your thoughts on this.
Hex Osirus
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 02:18
my thoughts exactly....i now try and write tracks that are based around my own psychedelic experiences, feelings and so on.....this may either happen during composition or during arrangement depending on the track.
Here is my latest which is very inspired by almost 2 years spent at a spectacularly beautiful beach town in australia....surround by lush forests and farmland. I tried to merge this influence with some very special experiences and ideas that developed during my time in that area.
its the first track that ive arranged & finished (well not fully finished) in almost 4 years but i am now trying to develope more tracks around this sort of style.
I find it really doesnt fit any existing psytrance sub genre which is good. Psytrance is just psychedelic music and i think artists limit their creativity by trying to confine themselves to a specific sub genre(This includes psychedelic trance). The music should just flow straight out from your subconcious no matter how crazy and should be able to go in any direction you feel.
Try and get your deepest emotions into the music.
I also cant stress enough the importance of hearing what else is being done in the world of music. I find alot of new artists mostly listen to only psytrance. There is some unbelievably psychedelic and unique music out there in the world and as an artist you need to explore and hear how other artist incorporate psychedelic ideas into their music. http://soundcloud.com/seer
mubali
Mubali
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 02:45
One thing I'd like to mention about any type of culture is the fact that new culture and new ideas are fashioned out of the ashes of the old. Now that doesn't mean that you can just copy whatever's being made now and call it innovative, but you must be respectful of what works, how and why it does, and why you or others like it... Then you can start breaking rules where you need to.
I watched a very interesting video about copyright law that discussed "Fair Use".
You will find if you look at music's evolution over time that even the most cutting edge artists in whatever genre have roots in other music prior to what they were doing now... Also some people feel that even the most creative music might not be their cup of tea... I've heard some really out there music that is really innovative, but it didn't really do too much for me as far as something I'd actively listen to...
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
FaceHead
FaceHead
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 04:34
well yes there is a point where innovation just for the sake of being different does detract from the piece i mean if I wrote an entire track blindfolded with my penis taped to the mouse and marshmallows on my fingers i might be so "out there" and so unique but i wouldnt neccessarily be making good music. I know this from experience ...kidding...sorta. There is with everything in life a balance that is part of the maze you have to go through. You can be creative and make something listenable but using proven ideas because you know they will be listenable seems very unfulfilling and empty to me. In that case you are a trance craftsman not a trance artist. You gotta think that any sound style or method was at once innovative and it doesnt have to be aural hell to be different. I think though that the copying im talking about is hardly ever intentional but when you start to hear what works and what doesnt it makes it alot harder to not try those things. There are many routes though you can break the rules or you can just write your own or you can bend them or you can never have acknowledged their existance to begin with. I think its may be more important to find your own path to creation as it is to know how to use a compressor. The tech knowledge will come eventually through experience and experimentation but the creativity cannot be taught to you by anyone except for yourself. Inspiration can drive you to sit down and work but it wont force you to be creative.
I also agree with hex in that there is lots of freeform psychedelic music out there that isnt trance oriented that is very interesting. So very interesting that i contemplated several times stopping my trance mission to be able to have true freedom over creation. I just cant do that yet though. Oh ya also i lked the track very much hex it really does have a personal feeling to it. This is a good example also to what mubali was saying. You can definately hear things in this track that have been done before and that is not a bad thing its near impossible to make something listenable that doesnt have already proven aspects to it, but the piece as a whole has been created in such a way that it is personal and unique.
I feel that you dont need to try to be different if you try to tap into the self. not just in music but in life as well. the more in touch you become with yourself the easier it is to express it through music or art of any kind. If you arent then maybe the struggle you face with the feeling of being lost in the dark could be tapped into as well. If you are not a serial killer dont make tracks inspired by murder. If you are a deeply depressed person dont try to hide that through fake happiness. I by no means am trying to site myself as an example for how to be different. I just think alot, and this stuff has been reoccurring in my mind.
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 05:44
Hey dudes! I agree to some extent, but on the other hand at parties we have Djs that can pick and choose from so many styles and artists that they can make a very interesting set with lots of variation.. Problem is that everything has to be so nicheŽd Only dark psy or isra fullon or prog, or soumistyle.... the problem is not that we dont have innovative creative music, the problem is that we got narrowminded people and djs and party orgz...
Im getting bored of darkpsy becasue there is soo much right now and they play it from begining to end in many parties... variety enhances
bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 06:36
facehead - the reason that 90% psytrance sounds like a copy is because it is a copy. 90% artists dont know how to create, The way they make their tracks is they ask how others were done and they do exactly the same thing.
The reason 90% psy is all the same is coz people dont know how to do anything but copy. But thats fine coz 100% of dancers dont care.
I think none of these hack artists could make a name for themselves in any other genre so they go to the genre where anything, no matter how repetitive and basic, is accepteable. Not that most trance or house is much better mind you.
Sadly this is the state of humanity. 90% of people are drones that work menial tasks and live menial lives, whereas only a handful make up the ideas that drive all the other industries and sustain the lifestyles of their less talented brothers.
But thats fine... Since thats how it is, who's to second guess 500 million years of evolution.
FaceHead
FaceHead
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 07:13
Quote:
On 2008-03-26 06:36, bukboy wrote:
facehead - the reason that 90% psytrance sounds like a copy is because it is a copy. 90% artists dont know how to create, The way they make their tracks is they ask how others were done and they do exactly the same thing.
The reason 90% psy is all the same is coz people dont know how to do anything but copy. But thats fine coz 100% of dancers dont care.
I think none of these hack artists could make a name for themselves in any other genre so they go to the genre where anything, no matter how repetitive and basic, is accepteable. Not that most trance or house is much better mind you.
Sadly this is the state of humanity. 90% of people are drones that work menial tasks and live menial lives, whereas only a handful make up the ideas that drive all the other industries and sustain the lifestyles of their less talented brothers.
But thats fine... Since thats how it is, who's to second guess 500 million years of evolution.
but if this is the case is it not better to try and change this and fail then to contribute to the monotony? There are artists who have hit the mainstream that did their own thing look at loopus, rinkadink, derango, plus many others and they will continue to keep the "drones" stomping while playing the same stuff will keep the "drones" being "drones". Im not suggesting we can change the world or anything as naive as that but i myself would like to not add to effort in halting evolution especially in a supposedly psychedelic scene where the main goal is personal evolution. As artists if we harbor such a bleek outlook then why bother at all? I got into this with the hopes of furthering my own evolution as well as hopefully helping do the same thing to someone else that happened to me when i was first introduced to this scene. Having such a poor outlook on this is only going to help it all be bought out by red bull faster, and become another disposable masturbatory entertainment outlet, where people can get whacked out and feign enlightenment. In other words a labotomy for the scene and i dont wanna be another page in counter culture history. I dont wanna be that old fart goin man it used to be good back when psy was psy blah blah blah. IF we keep it fresh impending doom wont be able to catch up. This is why any music fad fails its becaus it gets stale people loose interest then no one cares if it lives or dies. Time to jump ship and milk the next thing dry. perhaps im completely illusioned by the whole thing and there is no chance at all. Like anything else if you dont tend to it, it will eventually die like a planet, a relationship, a pet or even a plant. We need more mothers running the show, nurturing what they love and giving birth to new things.
bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 08:19
You've got me all wrong. If u want the scene to be great, make it great, don't expect anyone else.
Impose your own standards, outdo yourself, compare yourself to your heros, not the standard.
If you succeed, just by doing this you will get 90% of your fans to emulate you and another few % who will try to go beyond you. Thats how it works, THATS LIFE. Enjoy.
Crying Orc Project
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 09:14
But There's Allot of artists that got them own uniqe style,
and u can hear it in each track they make !
so not everyone are copying, and not everyone make the same style.
and as my boy greg said,
''new culture and new ideas are fashioned out of the ashes of the old''
every kind of style is a development or fusion from something else.
bukboy
Hyperboreans
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 09:51
Yeah. every style is a development or fusion of another style. So long as its not pure shit.
FaceHead
FaceHead
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 10:12
Quote:
On 2008-03-26 08:19, bukboy wrote:
You've got me all wrong. If u want the scene to be great, make it great, don't expect anyone else.
Impose your own standards, outdo yourself, compare yourself to your heros, not the standard.
If you succeed, just by doing this you will get 90% of your fans to emulate you and another few % who will try to go beyond you. Thats how it works, THATS LIFE. Enjoy.
ok sorry i often have a hard time understanding where someone is truly coming from in artificial communication
3l3ctromonk
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 17:50
Facehead, I do agree with you on this that we do have to be unique and not a copy cat.
What I feel is that there are certain set parameters which define psychedelic trance, let it be Goa/fullon/psy/dark/israeli trance and if we do not have those parameters in a track its not that particilar genre.
If we are defining some track in a particular genre it should have those defined parameters.I am not saying that yes lets make a track and copy the melodies from other artists and send it to labels.But yes a particular sound can be taken.
Lets not relate a track to a particular genre and yes we can make and arrange it anyway we want but when we are relating a track to a particular genre some things might sound similar.
Its not only with trance music.Lets take Hip Hop.Dont you find that all Hip Hop artists sound similar these days.But there are some tracks which are unique that separates one artist from other artists.
I do agree that when producing we have to be unique and innovate some new ideas but some sort of relation will definately be there as we are relating to a genre - Trance.
"We surely know by some nameless instinct more about our futures than we think we know."
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 26, 2008 17:55
well no 2 tracks of mine sound simmilar
i dont have these issues, i kinda agree wit bukboy.
hmmm my advice wud be stop this forum , This is half communication half knowledge. which is dangerous.
for ex. U look at the forum it seems full on is dead. Lol. Thats a joke .
Anyways, Have it in ur head that u are here to deliver music that will be remembered not only now whn but even way after ur gone. Then my friend u will get rid of such brain chatter.
