Chemogen
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 28, 2010 04:31:03
So for the last year and a half I've been shooting and editing party/artist promo videos.
For a party video, I typically shoot one act at night and one in the day although I've gone through entire parties, stone sober and without sleep to catch every act on the line-up. The real work comes after the party, when I spend about half a day editing (usually the day after the party or the actual day the party ends) the video together and maintaining (what I think) is a relatively high production standard.
Recently, I've been in demand and have been charging for my work. Nothing exorbitant, mind you.
Converting from Rands to Euros, my rate is just under 15eu for an hour of filming and 12eu for an hour of editing. My work-rate is typically an hour to a minute, so a 5 minute video with two hours of videography would amount to 90eu.
I was approached by an organizer to produce a promo video for them. I quoted them, and also gave them just over a 10% discount. They agreed on the fee and I got one comp for the event. Keep in mind, in this context I attend an event from a totally different perspective. I barely drink and I don't consume any drugs. For the most part, I'd much rather be getting muddy front-left than worrying about expensive video equipment.
The day after - a public holiday - I spent about eight hours editing. I had shot so much, I added an extra 2 minutes to the video at no extra charge.
One thing I pride myself on, is the fact that I upload the videos to Youtube/Facebook as soon as they're done because I know that if I had just woken up after a great weekend, something that would make my day would be reliving those memories again even while they're still fresh in my mind.
I guess that's my biggest problem in a business model sense, because working on this type of honour system evidently doesn't work.
I've so far sent two E-mails to the promoter asking for them to let me know when they're free for me to deliver them a DVD copy and receive my payment. Both of these have been ignored, although they're active online and are linking to my work.
They've been around for a long time, so I wont name them out of respect for that but I'm really discouraged by the whole thing.
The money I'd get would firstly go to covering the costs of the tapes I used for shooting and secondly, it'd go straight back into sustaining the scene whether by getting tickets for other events or (for the most part) buying CDs.
I know I have the right to remove the video, but I don't want to. People dig it and doing so would obviously cause questions to arise. I don't want to make too big an issue out of it, but what do I do? I can't be 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure they had no problems paying performers for an hour of music.
What really began out of the purest love for this culture and an inherent need to share this love through a visual medium has now turned to bitterness and a cynicism. This is worse than being screwed over financially. What's worse is that it came from the crew that I'd really not expect it to come from.
VJs, DJs, Decor artists. What would you do if you were in my shoes?
On the flipside though, and in closing, I wont name and shame but I will name and praise Organik Media for not only reminding me that they need to pay me but also paying me more than what was quoted and showing a general enthusiasm in the stuff I produce. For that I have no issue whatsoever promoting them and in the same breath, showing what one of my videos consists of.
Thanks a lot Organik, you have my total support.
To the other guys, I doubt I'll ever attend one of your events again let alone do any work for you.
Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
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Posted : Mar 28, 2010 09:07
Quote:
One thing I pride myself on, is the fact that I upload the videos to Youtube/Facebook as soon as they're done because I know that if I had just woken up after a great weekend, something that would make my day would be reliving those memories again even while they're still fresh in my mind.
this your problem as to why someone might not pay you...as since you yourself have uploaded the video on youtube, its easily available to the organizer and they feel you are using their event to promote your work..so in that case they are right not pay you..by posting the video on youtube you are already commercializing on the content...and if i were a organizer i too would not pay you. if you are hired to do work for somebody, you do not use that work for other purposes..the promo video should be handed to the organizer or whoever asks u to make it..u do not promote it yourself.
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive
supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 28, 2010 13:32
Make sure they pay half in front and half afterwards. And it might make sense next time to only hand them the dvd's when they pay.
soundcloud.com/supergroover
TranceVisuals
TranceVisuals
Started Topics :
23
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743
Posted : Mar 28, 2010 13:47
Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and hopefully be a bit wiser next time.
I found doing it "for the love of it", serves me well, and trusting that when I am good enough, I will get my just rewards.
Money has destroyed a lot of good relationships for me in the past, mostly as a result of trusting people I thought were friends. They weren't, and thus I became enlightened.
P.s. Oh yeah, and crush them into nothing with your love
Chemogen
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 28, 2010 14:37
Quote:
On 2010-03-28 09:07, Xolvexs wrote:
Quote:
One thing I pride myself on, is the fact that I upload the videos to Youtube/Facebook as soon as they're done because I know that if I had just woken up after a great weekend, something that would make my day would be reliving those memories again even while they're still fresh in my mind.
this your problem as to why someone might not pay you...as since you yourself have uploaded the video on youtube, its easily available to the organizer and they feel you are using their event to promote your work..so in that case they are right not pay you..by posting the video on youtube you are already commercializing on the content...and if i were a organizer i too would not pay you. if you are hired to do work for somebody, you do not use that work for other purposes..the promo video should be handed to the organizer or whoever asks u to make it..u do not promote it yourself.
I sent them a message asking if they wanted to see it first or they wanted me to upload it, they told me to upload it. Sorry, forgot to mention that.
Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 28, 2010 15:50
Just make sure to get an advance one month prior to the job (if you do not get paid an advance do not show up) and do not upload anything until you get the rest of your money. Also apply to graphic/web design jobs.www.beatagency.dk
mubali
Mubali
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Posted : Mar 28, 2010 15:52
Unfortunately, this happens a bit too often. All you can do is say screw it, I won't work for them, and politely remind them in person that they still owe you, and just use that video you made for them for your own benefit.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
makus
Overdream
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Posted : Mar 28, 2010 23:04
+1 to mubali
really nice video btw! well done. where can i see the video you are talking about? www.overdreamstudio.com
Chemogen
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 28, 2010 23:13
One other thing that doesn't really work in my favour is the fact that I'm a DJ. I don't want to burn my bridges with the bigger organisers who I've yet to play for, so I don't want to make the whole thing directly public. The best I can do is let you watch the videos and guess for yourself which is the one in question.
Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 28, 2010 23:52
Quote:
On 2010-03-28 23:13, Chemogen wrote:
One other thing that doesn't really work in my favour is the fact that I'm a DJ. I don't want to burn my bridges with the bigger organisers who I've yet to play for, so I don't want to make the whole thing directly public.
If you are a good enough DJ you will get booked anyway because people will demand you.
If you're not that good... well, honestly, there are plenty of DJs out there and you might as well find something else to do for money/fame
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
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671
Posted : Mar 29, 2010 02:01
Did you make that video?
wow, awesome work.
Mike A
Subra
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3954
Posted : Mar 29, 2010 11:47
At least you didn't write "fuck them liars thieves" etc etc and you had proper English!
We don't get that often on Isratrance.
KundaliniRising
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 30, 2010 06:55
Why don't you replace the video on youtube with the one with a semi-transparent water-mark saying This video is the property of Chemogen blah blah ....also would be better if you could include your website URL, FB page etc. If the organizers really value your efforts they shall pay you up and get the water-mark removed, if not there is still nothing to loose as this video will work as an advertisement for your Videography services.
Staying positive is the key when dealing in digital goods IMO.
Cheers..
Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 30, 2010 07:08
very nice editing and dubbing! the lens flare taking it into the morning...brilliant!
your mistake was putting it up yourself as xolvexs pointed out. but hey look at the bright side, you got some good promo now.
Psynaesthesian
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 30, 2010 12:14
Good Stuff Chemogen ... like your work!! Keep it up!!
I think the best way to work in such situations would be with some clarity on both parties side.
Why don't you draft a simple 'contract of agreement' or 'terms and conditions' which you and the people you are doing business with can agree to before you start working on the project.
Highlight all your main points (like your payment, your rights to use the material for your own promotion, etc.) and ask them if they want anything to be included in it to safeguard both yours and their interests - sign and seal.
I think it's a very healthy way of doing business - your mind is clear about what your rights and limits are and you can do a much better job when there are no worries!
At least it's all clear which leaves no room for any misunderstandings.
May sound very run of the mill corporate but it has the interests of all 'parties' (pun intended) involved.
