| Author
|
Opinions on Creamware?
|
shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Mar 27, 2007 16:54
|
@ irrational: most of things said here are true. CW is without doubt one of the best audio systems available. But there's a small catch.
You have to be aware that the logic of scope system is unlike any other you have used so far. It takes some time to get use to it before you can make use of it. It's not an instant gratification and this is the reason why many find their user interface not user friendly. Sometimes having a lot options can be viewed as being complicated and not user friendly. Drop down menu with 100 options makes it hard to select one unless you know which one do you need. Since many of options are unique you first have to try them all until you will be able to choose one without throwing a dice or asking a voodoo priest to help you choose.
To make a long story short... jet planes are high-tech but most of people would find them very complicated, counter intuitive and therefore a waste of time. So before you make a call... ask your self are you a jet plane type or a plug and pray type.
  "It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
|
|
|
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Mar 27, 2007 19:05
|
i don't get why this has a name as a complicated platform.... its logical and very real world.
you connect the audio to the mixer to the speaker.... its not rocket science 
of course if you want to you defo CAN get deep, but its not like you mentioned with hundreds of menus and options...
the only system within scope with an overwhelming amount of options and modules is the modular, but this is true of any modular system.
anyhow.... i think any electronic musician that respects himself should see himself as a jet plane type... plug and pray is ruining music imo.
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
|
|
|
vipal
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
123
Posts :
1397
Posted : Mar 27, 2007 20:13
|
i dont want to piss-off the creamware lovers but really for me it was nothing but a pain in the ass. and no service there.
try the search for my name and creamware. i have even enough of it to write about it. stay away from creamware if you want to use your time for making tracks instead of tweaking your computer and reinstalling the card.
if you still want to go for it: buy a second hand card that you can see working. in holland they are offered a lot. for 400 euro you can have almost every plug and synth since they gave them somehow with the last scope upgrade/selling-action away anyhow.
but.. a WORKING creamwarecard is really sounding very nice! and maybe i was just unlucky with my card and the lack of support. but anyhow the drivers are very outdated. check www.planetz.com to see how these scope-people spend their time.
ok. have a nice day. |
|
|
|
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Mar 27, 2007 20:35
|
i feel your pain vipal and its agreed support from cw is crap, but this product developed a true user base and support group on planetz as mentioned.
drivers are dated all is true, but i stil think you just had an unlucky setup. i never had any problems.
just a note that all the bad support and lack of updates from cw was on the count of thier shitty financial situation. the company basically folded, then came back then folded again. the good news is it has just very recently been bought out by a new company, retaining many of the developers.
so if anything the future is looking bright again as far as new things for scope and eventually we all hope a new generation of cards.
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
|
|
|
IRRATIONAL IMPULSE
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
50
Posted : Mar 27, 2007 21:54
|
Thank you people for your effort...
Well. I had never use a CW product so I don't know many about it.Can somebody explain me a simple thing?
For example if i want to use the minimax synth, can i use it from Cubase as a vsti or I have to dig into any weird routing that the CW needs?
Vasilis Irrational |
|
|
|
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Mar 27, 2007 22:13
|
you can use it in cubase with a scope mode called xtc mode, i personall never got xtc to work proper so i work with the normal routing mode.
its not so wierd bro. just a project window, where u connect the cubase midi out to the minimax midi in and the minimax audio out back to cubase audio channel.
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
|
|
|
IRRATIONAL IMPULSE
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
50
Posted : Mar 27, 2007 22:27
|
I see,
I don't think that I will face any problems with it as i have experience on DAWs and cpu in general.In this mode you are talking about, are you facing any weird behaviour from your CW?Is it unstable or something?
Thanks again...
Vasilis Irrational |
|
|
|
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Mar 27, 2007 22:34
|
well, xtc mode is indeed not that great here, some plugins work and some don't, also with xtc mode there is the delay compensation issue, if u work with a newer sequencer with proper delay comp it should work better.
opinions on xtc mode are divided, there are many who couldn't get it to work in a stable manner and many other who have, but surley for xtc you need some tweaking.
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
|
|
|
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Mar 27, 2007 22:36
|
again man most important thing is that your motherboard and cards are compatible and work well with scope.. hang out at planet z and look at the pc configurations section, maybe even post your specs and get input from people if it should work well.
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
|
|
|
IRRATIONAL IMPULSE
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
50
Posted : Mar 27, 2007 22:39
|
Thanks mate.....
Vasilis Irrational |
|
|
|
shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Mar 28, 2007 11:18
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-03-27 19:05, faxinadu wrote:
i don't get why this has a name as a complicated platform.... its logical and very real world.
you connect the audio to the mixer to the speaker.... its not rocket science
of course if you want to you defo CAN get deep, but its not like you mentioned with hundreds of menus and options...
|
|
There are people who are capable to run the 3D Max for the first time and make a basic shaped 3D image within 45 minutes. Other people spend years working in MS Office and still get stuck with basic formulas in excel. So what you and I find to be intuitive (after handling the Reason wires) others can find counterintuitive.
There is no 100 options in any drop down menu... of course. But opening a modular patch and start tweeking the knobs and replugging the wires is not a task for F-Loops Vanguard user with 6 months of experience and no prior technical knowledge.
Lot of people buy a CW system without knowing this. That is the reason why many end frustrated and run away from arguably one of the best DSP sound cards available.
Manual is worthless. It's written for those with some basic knowledge while users without experience don't understand anything from it.
@ irrational: sync with Cubase is not so ideal after all. XTC mode is not even worth the effort. You can use project to rewire synths or effects directly to ASIO ports in Cubase. Cubase can handle latency for FX with send and return but using synths routed back to cubase will cause latency and can be a pain in the ass. Even CW claims that there is no latency in DSP this is not true. Latency is below 2 or 3 msec. but try to delay a 144 bpm bass line for 3 msec and let me know if you can feel the difference.
Alternative is to route synths directly to project mixer but than you can not use any VST effects on scope synths and you can't export synth to audio file from cubase. That means manual recording in cubase and sometimes that complication is not worth the effort. So if you have AD converters and external sum (mixer) none of this will trouble you. Without that it is possible to use CW in sync with cubase but it requires some time effort.
So it's a good tool but not ideal! I really like this card and I would not trade it for any M-audio or any other plug and pray card... but that doesn't mean that it's the best card in the universe without any known problems
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
|
|
|
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Mar 28, 2007 11:27
|
ehehehhe imo it IS the best card in the universe... but indeed it does have many problems.
for me personaly xtc is worthless as well, but it is important to note like i mentioned - many people have gotten it to work perfectly and swear by it.
what you say about the modular is true shaman, but again, the modular is just a part of the system. for basic operation its not complicated, you cant compare routing some windows in a simulated eviornment of a real studio (ie plug the synth into the mixer) to 3dmax.
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
|
|
|
vipal
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
123
Posts :
1397
Posted : Mar 28, 2007 20:21
|
On 2007-03-28 11:18, shamantrixx wrote:
There is no 100 options in any drop down menu... of course. But opening a modular patch and start tweeking the knobs and replugging the wires is not a task for F-Loops Vanguard user with 6 months of experience and no prior technical knowledge.
Lot of people buy a CW system without knowing this. That is the reason why many end frustrated and run away from arguably one of the best DSP sound cards available.
2shamantrixx:
i spend 1000 euro's on a CW-soundcard thats freezes my pc every 10 mins. my supplier does not know what to do about it. i send the card for garantee back to creamware and get it back in the same state. installed a dozens of times the damn thing. lost so many hours with this shit thing.
so obviously there is another reason then you mentioned why people run frustrated away from scope. and for me (which could be you if you buy CW) this reason counts.. a lot.
|
|
|
|
Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Mar 28, 2007 21:44
|
@shamantrixx
Sure...fruity is hard as well if you need to know the ins and outs of every VST on the market.
The basic operation of the Scope environment is IMO very easy, but indeed many people seem to disagree on that as well for some reason.
I really don't think it's the UI itself...if you can find your way around a modern sequencer Scope is a breeze.
I has more to do with having several different environments that should get along that I guess cause confusion for some people.
It really seem like you either love it or hate it...personally i just appreciate the freedom the Scope environment gives find it really easy to use.
@vipal
I've installed Scope cards on more than 10 machines and never had a problem.
You just need to be aware of what hardware will agree with the card since it's indeed quite picky.
Most common seem to be a mobo that doesn't agree with the Scope, but that is not expensive or hard to change really.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
|
|
|
vipal
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
123
Posts :
1397
Posted : Mar 29, 2007 01:29
|
@ spindrift:
bought the right mobo, a scope-card i borrowed worked fine. my card nada. so its a complain abt the service.
but as this topic started with someone who was thinking abt buying scope its relevant.
but lets forget my case, maybe soon i will get garantee and another card thats working.
then i would like to use it with toshlink into my motu828. by that time i will ask you for a nice simple modular3 bass-patch. ok? |
|
|
|
