| Author
|
One for the Theory heads !!
|
Soundmagus
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
67
Posts :
633
Posted : Feb 19, 2009 23:27
|
Ha i still am not right lool
If you look at this : http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory15.htm#simplecompound
It says the following :
Simple Time Signature Relative Compound
2/2 6/4
2/4 6/8
2/8 6/16
so it doesnt look like a convention in the way i understand the term, but what i did notice is top number x3 and bottom number x2. Maybe i will just look at it this way.
I dont know why i need to know this or infact if i do its just one of those things that jumped out at me and said " the maths doesnt make sense".
I think its not supposed too in the way i am thinking of it. Maybe i will understand later when i get more theory under my belt so please dont worry yourself about it, its something i will grasp in time.
thanks for your imput, its at least got me thinking baout somethign new for a change.
Mark
  Check out my site for Video tutorials and other tips & Tricks
http://www.music-production-videos.com |
|
|
|
shellbound
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
601
Posted : Feb 19, 2009 23:51
|
they are equivalent because the ratio (between the simple and compound) is the same - 3/2.
read this again:
* To determine the number of beats per bar, divide the upper number by three. For example, in 6/8, there are 2 beats per measure. The pulse in a compound 6/8 will have two dotted quarter-note (crotchet) beats, and each beat will subdivide into a group of three eighth notes.
* To identify the "beat unit" (i.e. which type of note represents one beat), multiply the note value represented by the lower number by three. In 6/8, the lower number (8) represents the note value of an eighth note. Multiplying that note value by three gives a unit of a dotted quarter note, or 3 eighth notes.
keep in mind that:
1 quarter note = 2 eighth notes
1 dotted quarter note = 3 eighth notes
so
2 dotted quarter notes = 6 eighth notes
i think i'm beginning to understand the math behind it. i know what it feels like very well. but reading that description before wasn't really instantly clear. now after kicking it around in that brain of mine, it begins to be more clear.
it's sort of like 3/4, except your phrase is longer. that's where the "2 beats per measure comes in." instead of it being waltz-like ... One two three One two three, it's spread over two beats: One two three one two three One two three one two there. with the capital "O" denoting the the beginning of the phrase, which takes 2 beats total to repeat.
does... any of the crap i just wrote make any sense? |
|
|
|
Soundmagus
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
67
Posts :
633
Posted : Feb 20, 2009 00:52
|
Well yes i understand it now i think yes, thanks for your help, along with my misses and several of my friends.
Here is what i have come up with.
the easy way to work it out is the 3/2 ratio.
We also figured out (me and the misses) that because they have to divide by 3 they use the nearest available symbol thats smaller in length to the original beat length, for example an 8th note becomes 3 16th notes so in this case if you started with 4/8 as the simple time, then the compound becomes 12/16.
So we have it sussed.
What was screwing me up was that mathematically its wrong.
for instance, 1 beat = two half beats in simple time
HOWEVER
In compound time 1 beat = 3 half beats
Which is nonesense 
It simply done so that you can write the compound using the same symbols but it has nothign to do with maths.
I understand it now, thanks for your help, its been most illuminating if not frustrating but feel good now 
Mark
Check out my site for Video tutorials and other tips & Tricks
http://www.music-production-videos.com |
|
|
|
Glitch_CapeTown
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
952
Posted : Feb 20, 2009 09:00
|
|
shellbound
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
601
Posted : Feb 20, 2009 17:20
|
Quote:
|
On 2009-02-20 09:00, Glitch_CapeTown wrote:
psy trance ompaloompa basslines are 3/4 innit?
|
|
no, they are not, and also what i said previously about this being "like 3/4" is not correct as well. the OompaLoompa part (vibetribe - 3/4, scorb - rave from the grave, ace ventura - the light [after the break], etc) is 6/8 or 4/4. it's achieved by using 3 DOTTED 8th notes, where 3/4 means 3 quarter notes per bar.
so, again, you can notate this in 2 different ways, but it will sound the same.
if you keep your sequencer in 4/4, change your note value and length to dotted 8th, and draw in your KBB pattern, you'll get the OompaLoompa feel, where all three are of equal length of a dotted 8th note.
you should be able to get the same thing if you change the time signature to 6/8. i'm at work now, so can't verify this, but probably once you change that, the grid should change and it should be instantly obvious what note lengths will achieve the same result.
so if your track is mostly 4/4 and goes into the oompaloompa part for a few sections, you use dotted 8th notes for that section. but if your entire track is like that, then if you set the time signature to 6/8, that will be "global" and implied.
exactly like specifying the key of the piece (in written notation). if you specify it at the beginning, that simply means you don't need to put all those sharp/flat symbols for the notes that are sharp/flat for that particular key. |
|
|
|
wyl_e_peyote
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
22
Posted : Mar 30, 2009 18:34
|
Right Magus, here it is in a nutshell....
6/8 and 2/4 are both what are called duple time signatures. Only one is simple (2/4) and one is compound (6/8)
They are both measures of 2 beats to the bar, only the compound is 2 dotted beats, this means that each beat in 6/8 would last 1.5 beats in 2/4. This means that it is basically 2 triplet groups per bar in 6/8.
If you wanna hear the difference, think of 6/8 being a jig(irish traditional, da da da, da da da) and 2/4 is a military march (left right left right).
so what you need to do insofar as programming it, you will need to change your time sig settings to allow your snap to work properly, namely to refer to triplet groupings.
I hope this helps, rather han trying to drag through long winded explanations of something that is really quite simple. If you need any further help, feel free to email me at acmetoonz@live.co.uk. Just to add, I teach drums and music theory:) |
|
|
|
wyl_e_peyote
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
22
Posted : Mar 30, 2009 18:42
|
|
just to add, that last post by septa is on the money:) |
|
|
|
wyl_e_peyote
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
22
Posted : Mar 30, 2009 18:44
|
|
aslo what's really messing you up is that you are thinking of it in straight mathematical terms, rather than musical mathematics....there are subtle differences that can really mess with yer head if you don't grasp them. |
|
|
|
|
