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On VSTs and Sysex
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mquirk1
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 16, 2005 05:03
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What I want to do, is be able to have a midi track play through a VST, and while it's playing, tweak filters/modulation stuff on the vst to change the sound, and when the midi track is finished, have those changes I made be saved somehow, so the track always sounds that way with those tweaks.
Looking through the Cubase manual, and some online guides, it seems Sysex is the way to do it, but most of the documentation on it seems to be dealing with hardware, and even then is still extremely confusing. I see all this stuff about triggering dumps and stuff which I don't understand.
So my question is, is it possible to do this Sysex thing with software VSTs, taking for example z3ta+ because I've been working with it quite a bit lately.
Can you do it with z3ta+? Somehow record what changes you've made to the synth to change the outputted sound as it's playing (filters, even changing waveforms in oscs), and have it play back with all the knobs moving exactly the way you did it? Or if not z3ta+, do any soft synths support this feature?
A million thanks in advance, I've been trying to work this one out for awhile, and all my personal research has been to no avail. |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jan 16, 2005 06:07
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is it called automation?
i think it does.. in midi track under piano roll(where u put notes...) or automation clip.. u can have there all knobs for all vst.. but i dont use cubase to do it.. hmm sx users explain execly..
btw - u can also save preset for vst.. no need for sysex to do it.. sysex is better to hardware.. cause u usualy dont have inough internal memory ..
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http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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mquirk1
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 16, 2005 06:14
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That's a different thing, where you route a modulation thing in a vst to a midi control track, then use the automation thing under the key editor to change the control track.
What I'm talking about is moving all the knobs etc on a VST in *real time* as the midi track is playing and have it record, so that whenver I play that midi track back, all the knobs I was changing etc do the same thing as when I recorded it. |
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hip
Shuma
Started Topics :
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Posts :
404
Posted : Jan 16, 2005 15:24
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I'm not sure if I understand what you mean here, but if you press record (on the synth) and move the knobs of the vsts while the track is playing - they'll be recorded. Then press read, and the knobs will be changing when you play the midi track.
Cheers |
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mquirk1
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 16, 2005 15:49
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Record on the synth or cubase? I don't think any of the vsts have record buttons, or maybe I just can't find them. Is there a record button the VST track, or do you mean the write button? |
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MoDu
Started Topics :
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Posts :
36
Posted : Jan 16, 2005 16:07
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it's all done in the sequencer you are using. Your synths have nothing to do with recording automatations, except the moving knobs or whatever. Try it.
While your sequencer is playing and recording, move the knobs! then simply play you'll miracouslaly watch the knobs move by themselves!! |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Jan 16, 2005 16:13
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OK, I think there is some basic confusion here. While some synths allow you to assign their controls to MIDI controller messages, and (sometimes) to record those controller messages into MIDI tracks to automate those controls, this isn't necessarially the best way to do what you seem to want to do for reasons I'm not going to go into right now as it's a little off the subject.
I think what you want to do is this:
The red 'W' button on the top left for the VST synth activates Write Automation mode. Press it and play back (NOT record!) the track, and change the controls on the synth how you want. When you're done, press 'W' again to turn it off. Now press the green 'R' - this activates Read Automation mode for the synth. The movements you made will now play back.
Information about the automation you've written is stored (in the case of a synth) in that synth's track in the VST Instruments folder track in the arrange window. Not the most convenient place for it, I know, but that's just the way it is for now. Open the VST Instruments folder by clicking on the little '+' sign at the bottom left of the track's name on the track list, and the track will expand to show you a list of all the VSTi's you're using in the track. Select the one you want to see the automation for and open up its track in the same way. You'll now see two new tracks, one for the VSTi's audio channel in the mixer, and one for the VSTi itself. Once you've determined which is which, clicking on the track name of the VSTi synth track will give you a list of parameters available for automation; those where automation has been recorded will have a '*' next to the parameter name. Selecting a parameter will display all its automation, which can be edited very easily using the usual tools.
Alternatively, you can simply right-click on the track list in the arrange window and select 'show all automation' or whatever the option is, and you'll instantly see all the automation recorded for the whole tune.
Hope this helps!
Colin
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
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Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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mquirk1
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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384
Posted : Jan 16, 2005 16:15
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So I just record on the midi track? I've tried that, it doesn't seem to record anything at all. Do I need to have write enable on? And are there any specific options I need on in preferences or something, other then the sysex routing thing. |
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orik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
317
Posted : Jan 16, 2005 17:19
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Quote:
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On 2005-01-16 16:13, Colin OOOD wrote:
, this isn't necessarially the best way to do what you seem to want to do for reasons I'm not going to go into right now as it's a little off the subject.
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in
collin, you made me curiouse!
give us some examples (and tips) for what you
mean please 
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hip
Shuma
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
404
Posted : Jan 16, 2005 18:43
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Yes, i ment the write button when I wrote to press record on the synth.
Although Colin explained it much more detailed |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jan 16, 2005 18:52
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You're NOT recording on the MIDI track when you record automation, I think that's where you're getting confused.
Quote:
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On 2005-01-16 16:13, Colin OOOD wrote:
, this isn't necessarially the best way to do what you seem to want to do for reasons I'm not going to go into right now as it's a little off the subject. |
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As you've already discovered, many VST synths do not output MIDI messages when you move their controls, but 99.99% of them will read and write VST automation as I described above.
Also, if you're controlling a parameter with MIDI messages (assuming this is even possible, see above!) you are limited to the resolution of the controller, generally only 127 steps. VST automation is not limited to this, as shown by the fact that it is represented by smooth lines between automation points, which travel through every possible parameter value when changing. This gives you much smoother parameter changes than MIDI is capable of (depending, of course, on the resolution of the parameter itself).
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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orik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
317
Posted : Jan 17, 2005 10:32
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so, can high resolution messages be controled through regular controls or can
it only be done through nrpn mesaages?
and...how is this implemented with a vst,
through lets say, nuendo or cubase?
thanks! |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jan 17, 2005 15:25
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The standard MIDI specification allows some controllers to output 14-bit values (as opposed to the 7-bits offered by a single controller) without using NRPN messages, but it is extremely impractical in use and is anyway irrelevant as it is unsupported by 99.999999999% of all MIDI-receiving equipment. In my 19 years of using MIDI I have never used this facility, nor found a MIDI device that would be able to use it if I wanted to.
Some controller numbers are defined in the standard MIDI spec as the 'least significant bits' of the controllers for which more well-known controller numbers (for example controller 1, aka modulatiion wheel) are the 'most significant bits'. What this means in practise is that for every change of 1 in the value of controller 1 (modulation MSB), you have a full range of 127 values available by changing controller number 33 (modulation LSB).
For more information, the full MIDI spec giving details of which controller numbers are paired up in this way can be found here:
http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/tech/midispec.htm
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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orik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
317
Posted : Jan 17, 2005 18:17
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Hey colin, thanx man!
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