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Oldschool Goa Tricks & Tips?
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Apr 28, 2008 19:07
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On 2008-04-28 18:54, shamantrixx wrote:
You do realize that groove IS timing deviation?
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Duh. Exactly, you don't fuck up the groove for the purpose of the mix.
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Also you must be aware that psychoacoustic plugs often do that same exact thing by phase "correction"
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Some plugs do indeed change the phase of the high (or low-end) relative to the phase of the low (or high) end or other such phase tricks but this has absolutely nothing to do with changing the timing of elements just so that it is easier to mix. Fix the mix, not the timing. (Or rather, fix the timing, don't fuck it up!)
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and most loudness maximizers use that anyway.
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Bullshit.
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btw: you can produce a bad sounding music using just about any recipe. Usually it's a matter of how well you preform the procedure.
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shamantrixx, your silly kindergarten discussions tricks are really boring. What you say above might be correct but it completely misses the point that a bad recipe is a bad recipe and your recipe is a bad one.
UnderTow |
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missing-link
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
30
Posts :
108
Posted : Apr 29, 2008 11:37
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so all this maths stuff is balls? Have i just wasted precious time in my life reading this 
onyl joking but what would really be usefull so that people can test this stuff out them self is a good formula that can be adopted to put all this maths into practice...
their must be one surley? |
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ZakFenlon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
47
Posted : Apr 29, 2008 13:33
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On 2008-04-28 13:32, aXis wrote:
this is a bible for new producers in one school of thought .
Also Elad is very correct, which is the second truth here.
Hey Zak , Just DO UR THING !!!
Do not focus to make psy or hip hop , MAKE ur own music.
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i do but psy/goa is more accsesible for me.
 My mummy said that there were no monsters, at least no real ones!
Listen to Shiva Shidapu! |
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ZakFenlon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
47
Posted : Apr 29, 2008 13:39
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i dont mean to be nasty hear guys but all this maths and EQ stuff is confusing me, i dont reallly know the first thing about EQ's exept that here a high,mid and low ends to it.if anything oldschool goa dosent have that good sound quality, i just wanna make a good sounding track witch gets people going, non of that hardcore maths stuff , were drifting away from the subject of creating goa trance and going into technical details, i will do all of that when i have writen a track , all i wanna know write now is stuff like structure, synths , shiva style kicks(lol), but thanx anyway, cheers zak
My mummy said that there were no monsters, at least no real ones!
Listen to Shiva Shidapu! |
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Jikkenteki
Jikkenteki
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
356
Posted : Apr 29, 2008 14:20
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On 2008-04-29 13:39, ZakFenlon wrote:
i dont mean to be nasty hear guys but all this maths and EQ stuff is confusing me,
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Then ignore it. While all that math knowledge can be useful on occasion, for 99% for the artists out there it is meaningless. Music theory and all can be and is useful, but there is no need to rush it and try to learn everything all at once. At first maybe just figure out what a minor scale is, what notes of the scale are important in making a minor chord and, most importantly, just have fun making music. You can increase your theory knowledge piece by piece as you continue.
To paraphrase what was probably the best piece of musical advice I got in music school from one of my theory teacher...Music theory and all this math stuff is to be used for explaining why a musical event works or doesn't work. It shouldn't be used for actually making music.
..an over-simplification perhaps, but it has a lot of truth in it.
New Album: Jikkenteki - Flights Of Infinity
Available for free at http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/jikkenteki-flights-of-infinity/
PAR-2 Productions http://www.par-2.com |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Apr 29, 2008 18:24
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On 2008-04-28 19:07, UnderTow wrote:
What you say above might be correct but it completely misses the point that a bad recipe is a bad recipe and your recipe is a bad one.
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Opinion is like an asshole... everybody has one, so I guess you're entitled to have your own too.
btw, tnx for compliment... I find kids in kindergarten much more interesting than most of your posts on this forum. Kids are so honest and simple that I always take that as a compliment, regardless to the fact that your intention behind that statement was utterly different.
In fact... this is probably the best thing you've ever wrote me... you're so sweet
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
Posts :
3239
Posted : Apr 30, 2008 07:57
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why have this topic went off headline?
folks,
please don't hijack threads. You know what to do and how to.
Thank you .
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
87
Posts :
2822
Posted : May 14, 2008 00:27
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On 2008-04-26 18:45, shamantrixx wrote:
http://kunz.corrupt.ch/?Products:VST_TAL-BassLine
This is a decent and free emulation of SH-101. VAZ will make even closer sound to roland SH series but it's time consuming and it's not free. So check it out!
http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christi...bberfilter.exe
Extreme filter. Not 6 dB, not 12 or 24 dB... not even 36 dB.... over 300 dB. This can turn and sound into killer sweep. Free, of course!
http://www.araldfx.com/downloads.php#dl7
Storm gate 1, free, graphical gate with groove and patterns... great for morphing goa pads into gated pads.
And remember that goa is really all about mathematics. 7/8 repetition + last 1/8 modulation. Synced LFO's, half step modulations and perfect fifths.
Also try to control the exact duration of each sound (like kick drum and a bass) not to overlap each other. That will make a strong "pump & run" effect. If you have multiple elements triggering at same time try to delay them with a few msec. For example when a snare hits together with the kick drum try to delay a snare and the snare will "bite" the kick tail instead of clashing with it. Usually few msec. is more than enough.
Try to assign LFO to resonance of the filter instead to cut off frequency and use some serious saturation in a frequency range above 8 kHz. Increasing the resonance will increase the high frequency harmonics and humans tend to have a strong emotional reaction to it. It makes us bursting with desire to jump and interact with music.
Coherence is also something to think about. If you make a 144 bpm tune you can calculate that 144 beats divided by 60 seconds is 2.4 Hz. Now each tone is a certain frequency. Classical scale is tuned to 440 Hz. So which tone is most coherent with 2.4 Hz? Well 2.4 x 9 = 21.6 Hz and the closest note to that frequency is F. So than try to make a kick drum in F and bass line in the perfect fifth ratio (or as close as you can get) which would be A#.
Try to listen to some old goa tracks and check out how many of them actually have been made in this tuning and in 144 bpm. You can also modify the bpm slightly to make it perfectly coherent to the kick and bass drum by simple calculation or you can slightly retune instruments (like -30 cents) to make an F note coherent with a 144 bpm.
The 144 bpm happens to be two times faster than human heart beat, and translated to 2.4 Hz it happens to be a harmonic of the Schumann resonance which is a resonance of the planet (7.8 Hz) Multiplied by 4 corresponds closely to tone C (31,2 H) and is coherent with 2.4 Hz (31,2 divided by 2.4 = 13)
But even more important than any of this is to trust your nervous system. When you close your eyes goa must drive and evolve. Mathematics is just a guideline. In the end it must feel right.
These are just few things I've rediscovered during the years of making music. Them alone will not make good music but applied to good music will make an excellent result.
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Hey man!
friends of me and i try to uderstand what is ment by kosmical octave and all that stuff and i wonder why you use this formula x 9 to reach the right frequency for the tempo? whats that about?would be nice if you could give me an advice or even an explanaition.. thx mark
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Domingo
David Sonnentiger
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
41
Posted : May 20, 2008 11:56
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I have to admit, that I have no idea of the mathematical stuff you're talking about, although I'm not totally clueless about music theory.
Making Goa, I start with a Kick to have some metronome, then I play around on the keyboard until I have a theme or some melodies or chords or whatever, and then I start building up some nice loops, not to much to not stay stucked in loops.
Then I start the song with an intro and let it develope. Mathematics in my opinion is good for theorists to explain the music, but not for making it, this is much more an emotional process, like music in general is attracting primary emotions and not the ratio. For shure math helps to build the songs, but maybe it also blocks the creative flow to think to much about it.
Anyway, it's good to have different forms of making songs, so not every song sounds the same style.
All the best!
http://www.myspace.com/sonnentiger
listn.to/DavidSonnentiger
http://soundcloud.com/david-sonnentiger |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : May 20, 2008 14:41
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what about that thing everybody talks about!
Use your ears?
i wouldnt make much music if i had to analyze it first,
Of course its great to know about the intervals and stuff like this, perfect fifth and so on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_fifth
But if you want to make music, just sit down and follow the flow, afterwards you can listen and analyze and understand what made what.. and sometimes even the most brightest matematical genious wont understand what makes things so beautiful...
goa has often lighter snappiers kicks, not so deep baselines, more bouncy acid like baselines, and the sounds are very tb 303..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_TB-303
you can try rebirth for some acidlines...(if you find it)
muon tau pro and muon tau.. also great for acid lines with cutoff and reconance tweaks..
Also Imposcar is nice, and synth1 can do lots of things....
good luck, btw listen to some pleiadians a side project of Etnica, which i think is one of the best Goa/psytrance creators out there...
http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html
if you want to know the frequency of the note you write in...
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : May 21, 2008 16:33
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On 2008-05-14 00:27, -=ZorK=- wrote:
Hey man!
friends of me and i try to uderstand what is ment by kosmical octave and all that stuff and i wonder why you use this formula x 9 to reach the right frequency for the tempo? whats that about?would be nice if you could give me an advice or even an explanaition.. thx mark |
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maybe this will help you:
http://www.akasha.de/~aton/Unidance.html
if you have a hard time understanding this feel free to PM me. I'll be glad to talk you trough the parts you don't understand.
Please don't post questions here because I'm not willing to waste my time. As you can see many people have a tendency to argue about such this but are not willing to try any of this. Also they feel that their way of doing things is the only right way to do those things and that kind of approach is called "dogmatic". Like a religion claiming to be the only valid religion, or priest claiming to be the only valid authority on religion.
It's like you open a ferry boat service and suddenly the owner of another ferry boat up the stream starts complaining to the government about your method of getting people across the river. They see it as a competition and they are afraid of methods they don't understand. Especially if those methods are easy to calculate and thus remove "mystical" methods such are "use your ears" or "feel the force in you".
Truth is however that mathematics alone is not enough to make music. But if you have a musical talent that kind of knowledge can help you express that talent. Also our sense of hearing is entirely based on mathematical laws and understanding them enables you to make music that will sound better compared to music produced without that knowledge.
I'll be glad to continue this conversation with anyone who is interested in it by PM or mail (PM me and I'll give you my mail address). Comments about the heretical nature of mathematical approach to music I will simply ignore since they have no perspective at all.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : May 21, 2008 20:25
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I have a Casio FX-451 calculator. Can I use it to make Goa Trance?
Don't worry about the maths stuff people, it's irrelevant to 99% of us. Perhaps (perhaps!!!) you can use it to explain why good music works, but music is written with the heart and the ears, not the = button. If you want to appeal to mathematicians, calculate everything beforehand. If you want to appeal to people's emotions, get a basic kick and bass going, dim the lights, light a mild spliff (if you like) and jam. Is the track too fast? Slow it down. Does your bass sound lack balls? Try it in a lower key, or make a different sound. Record everything and edit it to keep just the bits you like.
IMO (having released my first goa trance album in 1997), the real secret to the goa trance sound is not to use an audio sequencer. Keeping your equipment basic and having the entire mix running live forces you to be creative in solving the problems that producing with a limited sonic palette inevitably raises. Ironically enough I believe one of the reasons for the increase in similar-sounding music since 2000 is the fact that modern music-making software is so open-ended that option paralysis often forces producers to choose the path of least resistance in the absence of true inspiration.
For those without access to 5 or 6 monophonic analog synths (I guess that's most of us then!) but who use eg. Cubase or Logic or Reason, here's what I'd recommend:
Load your instrument rack with 6 different synths. Do not use more than 2 instances of any one synth. Also load one good sampler instrument. Together, these form your sonic pallette which is deliberately limited to force you to be creative - do not load more instruments once you've started writing. Each instrument may play only one sound, although you can automate any synth parameter you like to make the sounds move. You can use as many inserts as you like but do not bounce down your synths to audio. Also do not import audio (eg. samples) directly into the sequencer - load them into the sampler instrument; samplers like Kontakt or Halion provide lots of features for fucking up audio. Set up your FX sends with: two reverbs (one long, one short) and two delays (one with low feedback, one with high); again, do not load new send FX once you've started writing.
The point is to set yourself up with a limited studio, and set yourself the challenge of making a complete track with it. Of course it depends on the producer, but I really believe that most people used to the infinite possibility of the modern DAW will find themselves inspired in new and different ways by working within a strict set of technical restrictions.
In the end though, it's whatever works for you. Including the mathematics. But I VERY much doubt that any of the old-school goa producers ever used ideas like that when writing or producing their tracks... which is what this thread is about.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : May 21, 2008 23:02
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Why do you use keyboard at all... Just use the fucking oscillator with pitch dial without any predefined positions and limitations. Tune each tone by your ear and your heart... dim the lights if it helps... Fuck mathematics. Why reject the infinity of frequencies between two notes?
Maybe because they don't sound well together? Well... what determines the key values of tones that go together well? Your ear, hearth, dimmed lights, pot or mathematics?
My religion is better than your religion. My keyboard has divine scale... your mathematical is bullshit. I'll pray for your soul 
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
981
Posted : May 22, 2008 04:11
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Colin once again smashes the forum with a brilliant post.
I have recently formatted my computer and installed a total of 10 synths and various essential effects. It took me 5 years of demos and experimentation to decide what I really consider great, but my creativity has really increased as a consequence of having less to choose from. |
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makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
3087
Posted : May 22, 2008 16:03
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Same here, i've got 5 vst synths (which i love and know all through) + XStation I use all the time. some effects, some samples.everything else is just about music!
www.overdreamstudio.com |
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