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Oldschool Goa Tricks & Tips?
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ZakFenlon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
47
Posted : Apr 25, 2008 15:05:00
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ite its me again, this is a really important topic for me , what do you people know about oldschool goa production stuff, like shiva shidapu , the earlier stuff like indian spirit ect..... i actually speak to Jorg(one of the members but i dont want to pester him), what synths do they use n stuff like that , thanx again =)
  My mummy said that there were no monsters, at least no real ones!
Listen to Shiva Shidapu! |
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Apr 25, 2008 16:12
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13 y/o and writing goa 
anyway, synths are not important. i write goa using vsts, so it's not what matters. it's more about scales and fx used actually.
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ZakFenlon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
47
Posted : Apr 25, 2008 16:27
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Quote:
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On 2008-04-25 16:12, Mike A wrote:
13 y/o and writing goa
anyway, synths are not important. i write goa using vsts, so it's not what matters. it's more about scales and fx used actually.
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i see , what vst stuff do you use, i know how to do a bit but im not quite that good yet ,i can write some alright scales n melodies share more knowledge with me .
My mummy said that there were no monsters, at least no real ones!
Listen to Shiva Shidapu! |
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Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
1748
Posted : Apr 25, 2008 19:21
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FreakyFreQuencies
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
51
Posted : Apr 25, 2008 20:03
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Old goa was written on true analog synths and I recommend using VAZ Modular VSTi. This modular synth sounds really fat and have this "warm analog sound". Best analog sounding VSTi what I ever heard 
Everytime when I use a VAZ, my track is finished as Goa 
Step sequencer is good tip for creating riffs.
About Shiva Shidapu You can read here: http://www.isratrance.com/ViewInterview.php?id=6&lang=eng
On old Jorg photos I see many of old analog stuff (SH-101 and other oldies
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cr1st0
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
208
Posted : Apr 25, 2008 21:19
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I think reason 4 is great for goa Subtractor is an analog synthesizer good for goa basslines and great for acid sounds, pads and some fx's like the wind, and Maelstrom have the quality of a good old synth with great modulators that you can use in subtractor maelstrom is also good for weird and bizarre noises too are great synths for that in my opinion.
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Apr 25, 2008 21:23
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Quote:
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On 2008-04-25 16:12, Mike A wrote:
13 y/o and writing goa
anyway, synths are not important. i write goa using vsts, so it's not what matters. it's more about scales and fx used actually.
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He wouldn't be the first one... remember the good old "Mr Chills Back" track, I believe that was produced by a 13 year old...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Apr 26, 2008 18:45
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http://kunz.corrupt.ch/?Products:VST_TAL-BassLine
This is a decent and free emulation of SH-101. VAZ will make even closer sound to roland SH series but it's time consuming and it's not free. So check it out!
http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christi...bberfilter.exe
Extreme filter. Not 6 dB, not 12 or 24 dB... not even 36 dB.... over 300 dB. This can turn and sound into killer sweep. Free, of course!
http://www.araldfx.com/downloads.php#dl7
Storm gate 1, free, graphical gate with groove and patterns... great for morphing goa pads into gated pads.
And remember that goa is really all about mathematics. 7/8 repetition + last 1/8 modulation. Synced LFO's, half step modulations and perfect fifths.
Also try to control the exact duration of each sound (like kick drum and a bass) not to overlap each other. That will make a strong "pump & run" effect. If you have multiple elements triggering at same time try to delay them with a few msec. For example when a snare hits together with the kick drum try to delay a snare and the snare will "bite" the kick tail instead of clashing with it. Usually few msec. is more than enough.
Try to assign LFO to resonance of the filter instead to cut off frequency and use some serious saturation in a frequency range above 8 kHz. Increasing the resonance will increase the high frequency harmonics and humans tend to have a strong emotional reaction to it. It makes us bursting with desire to jump and interact with music.
Coherence is also something to think about. If you make a 144 bpm tune you can calculate that 144 beats divided by 60 seconds is 2.4 Hz. Now each tone is a certain frequency. Classical scale is tuned to 440 Hz. So which tone is most coherent with 2.4 Hz? Well 2.4 x 9 = 21.6 Hz and the closest note to that frequency is F. So than try to make a kick drum in F and bass line in the perfect fifth ratio (or as close as you can get) which would be A#.
Try to listen to some old goa tracks and check out how many of them actually have been made in this tuning and in 144 bpm. You can also modify the bpm slightly to make it perfectly coherent to the kick and bass drum by simple calculation or you can slightly retune instruments (like -30 cents) to make an F note coherent with a 144 bpm.
The 144 bpm happens to be two times faster than human heart beat, and translated to 2.4 Hz it happens to be a harmonic of the Schumann resonance which is a resonance of the planet (7.8 Hz) Multiplied by 4 corresponds closely to tone C (31,2 H) and is coherent with 2.4 Hz (31,2 divided by 2.4 = 13)
But even more important than any of this is to trust your nervous system. When you close your eyes goa must drive and evolve. Mathematics is just a guideline. In the end it must feel right.
These are just few things I've rediscovered during the years of making music. Them alone will not make good music but applied to good music will make an excellent result.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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ZakFenlon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
47
Posted : Apr 26, 2008 19:27
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Quote:
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On 2008-04-25 21:23, Upavas wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-04-25 16:12, Mike A wrote:
13 y/o and writing goa
anyway, synths are not important. i write goa using vsts, so it's not what matters. it's more about scales and fx used actually.
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He wouldn't be the first one... remember the good old "Mr Chills Back" track, I believe that was produced by a 13 year old...
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were can i find this mr chill track?
My mummy said that there were no monsters, at least no real ones!
Listen to Shiva Shidapu! |
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ZakFenlon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
47
Posted : Apr 26, 2008 19:30
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Quote:
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On 2008-04-26 18:45, shamantrixx wrote:
http://kunz.corrupt.ch/?Products:VST_TAL-BassLine
This is a decent and free emulation of SH-101. VAZ will make even closer sound to roland SH series but it's time consuming and it's not free. So check it out!
http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christi...bberfilter.exe
Extreme filter. Not 6 dB, not 12 or 24 dB... not even 36 dB.... over 300 dB. This can turn and sound into killer sweep. Free, of course!
http://www.araldfx.com/downloads.php#dl7
Storm gate 1, free, graphical gate with groove and patterns... great for morphing goa pads into gated pads.
And remember that goa is really all about mathematics. 7/8 repetition + last 1/8 modulation. Synced LFO's, half step modulations and perfect fifths.
Also try to control the exact duration of each sound (like kick drum and a bass) not to overlap each other. That will make a strong "pump & run" effect. If you have multiple elements triggering at same time try to delay them with a few msec. For example when a snare hits together with the kick drum try to delay a snare and the snare will "bite" the kick tail instead of clashing with it. Usually few msec. is more than enough.
Try to assign LFO to resonance of the filter instead to cut off frequency and use some serious saturation in a frequency range above 8 kHz. Increasing the resonance will increase the high frequency harmonics and humans tend to have a strong emotional reaction to it. It makes us bursting with desire to jump and interact with music.
Coherence is also something to think about. If you make a 144 bpm tune you can calculate that 144 beats divided by 60 seconds is 2.4 Hz. Now each tone is a certain frequency. Classical scale is tuned to 440 Hz. So which tone is most coherent with 2.4 Hz? Well 2.4 x 9 = 21.6 Hz and the closest note to that frequency is F. So than try to make a kick drum in F and bass line in the perfect fifth ratio (or as close as you can get) which would be A#.
Try to listen to some old goa tracks and check out how many of them actually have been made in this tuning and in 144 bpm. You can also modify the bpm slightly to make it perfectly coherent to the kick and bass drum by simple calculation or you can slightly retune instruments (like -30 cents) to make an F note coherent with a 144 bpm.
The 144 bpm happens to be two times faster than human heart beat, and translated to 2.4 Hz it happens to be a harmonic of the Schumann resonance which is a resonance of the planet (7.8 Hz) Multiplied by 4 corresponds closely to tone C (31,2 H) and is coherent with 2.4 Hz (31,2 divided by 2.4 = 13)
But even more important than any of this is to trust your nervous system. When you close your eyes goa must drive and evolve. Mathematics is just a guideline. In the end it must feel right.
These are just few things I've rediscovered during the years of making music. Them alone will not make good music but applied to good music will make an excellent result.
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thnx for takin the time out to write all that stuff its so long i will have to read it later , the exetreme filter link dont work , it says error 404, thanx again.
My mummy said that there were no monsters, at least no real ones!
Listen to Shiva Shidapu! |
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Fuzulu
Fuzulu
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1096
Posted : Apr 26, 2008 20:14
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thank u mr shaman for sum very interesting tips and i thought u were always only up 2 trix
also wud like to get that extreme filter sounds very interesting |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Apr 26, 2008 20:28
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BIG Kick
Arpiggiated chords are serious must , preferably with cutoff automation
make snare roll
have hihat , first interesting then after second break make boom ts boom ts
use tb303 sounds as much as you can
be sure not to polish sound too much and use old machines samples if u eager for the goa sound charachter
make pads for the "devine" moments
or just play around with the instruments and have some fun
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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sly
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
183
Posted : Apr 26, 2008 20:53
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Quote:
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On 2008-04-26 18:45, shamantrixx wrote:
http://kunz.corrupt.ch/?Products:VST_TAL-BassLine
This is a decent and free emulation of SH-101. VAZ will make even closer sound to roland SH series but it's time consuming and it's not free. So check it out!
http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christi...bberfilter.exe
Extreme filter. Not 6 dB, not 12 or 24 dB... not even 36 dB.... over 300 dB. This can turn and sound into killer sweep. Free, of course!
http://www.araldfx.com/downloads.php#dl7
Storm gate 1, free, graphical gate with groove and patterns... great for morphing goa pads into gated pads.
And remember that goa is really all about mathematics. 7/8 repetition + last 1/8 modulation. Synced LFO's, half step modulations and perfect fifths.
Also try to control the exact duration of each sound (like kick drum and a bass) not to overlap each other. That will make a strong "pump & run" effect. If you have multiple elements triggering at same time try to delay them with a few msec. For example when a snare hits together with the kick drum try to delay a snare and the snare will "bite" the kick tail instead of clashing with it. Usually few msec. is more than enough.
Try to assign LFO to resonance of the filter instead to cut off frequency and use some serious saturation in a frequency range above 8 kHz. Increasing the resonance will increase the high frequency harmonics and humans tend to have a strong emotional reaction to it. It makes us bursting with desire to jump and interact with music.
Coherence is also something to think about. If you make a 144 bpm tune you can calculate that 144 beats divided by 60 seconds is 2.4 Hz. Now each tone is a certain frequency. Classical scale is tuned to 440 Hz. So which tone is most coherent with 2.4 Hz? Well 2.4 x 9 = 21.6 Hz and the closest note to that frequency is F. So than try to make a kick drum in F and bass line in the perfect fifth ratio (or as close as you can get) which would be A#.
Try to listen to some old goa tracks and check out how many of them actually have been made in this tuning and in 144 bpm. You can also modify the bpm slightly to make it perfectly coherent to the kick and bass drum by simple calculation or you can slightly retune instruments (like -30 cents) to make an F note coherent with a 144 bpm.
The 144 bpm happens to be two times faster than human heart beat, and translated to 2.4 Hz it happens to be a harmonic of the Schumann resonance which is a resonance of the planet (7.8 Hz) Multiplied by 4 corresponds closely to tone C (31,2 H) and is coherent with 2.4 Hz (31,2 divided by 2.4 = 13)
But even more important than any of this is to trust your nervous system. When you close your eyes goa must drive and evolve. Mathematics is just a guideline. In the end it must feel right.
These are just few things I've rediscovered during the years of making music. Them alone will not make good music but applied to good music will make an excellent result.
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sorry shaman mate,
but i think this mathematical stuff is the last information he needs imo.
yes, it's very important to know that 1/4 in a 144 bpm track is 0.416 ms = 2.4 hz. so you can calculate all steps (1/32, 1/16, 1/8...) and choose the right lengths of ad(s)r and samples. for lfo's and delay as well if you won't use the sync.
all the stuff with F, A# and the perfect fifth is very correct but quite useless imo. it's nice to try for experienced producers but as a guideline for someone who just has started i don't know...
actually i admit that i have no clue how many goa tracks are written in F. but it's not important anyway. check frequencie ranges for your bassline. i would say from D to A#. to go lower you have to be a f***in' pro (even D is very difficult) and if you go higher than A# you need a really low end kick.
i agree, that a lower bassdrum with a higher offbeat bassline fits good to oldschool stuff (perfect fith if you want ).
maybe i'm completely wrong and all the producers some years ago used half of the pc's performance (if they had one) to calculate the right frequencies 
but today there's nothing like this. for night psy i love kick and bass on the same tune, for morning fullon i like if the kick takes care of the low end. and some weierd stuff like kick one octave higher than bass i like as well.
the best method imo is just to use your ears (and a subwoofer if you have) and tune everything to your liking. better results than with maths (even thats also important for certain things).
and i bet i could find a great oldschool track that breaks all this rules...
but it's always worth to try out methods like this. just in general i think it's only a waste of time and inspiration.
just my opinion
cheers |
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heretical
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
77
Posted : Apr 26, 2008 22:56
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to me the biggest thing about the goa sound is the phrygian mode and tweaking the filter cutoff by hand.
you can find the notes for any key using this piano chord web thing
http://www.nfo.net/MFILE/
Just start by making a 16th note pedal and then move the "melody" notes up an octave, put some delay on the line and viola. If you do this in phrygian with a tweaked saw its kind of hard to not sound like goa. |
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sly
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
183
Posted : Apr 27, 2008 00:13
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Quote:
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On 2008-04-26 22:56, heretical wrote:
to me the biggest thing about the goa sound is the phrygian mode and tweaking the filter cutoff by hand.
you can find the notes for any key using this piano chord web thing
http://www.nfo.net/MFILE/
Just start by making a 16th note pedal and then move the "melody" notes up an octave, put some delay on the line and viola. If you do this in phrygian with a tweaked saw its kind of hard to not sound like goa.
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+1 
http://www.nfo.net/MFILE/ rocks |
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