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NOT Ableton Abuse
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OpenSourceCode
Datavore
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
660
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 14:54:38
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Hello all,
In light of my recent negativity on the forum, I have decided to create an entirely POSITIVE thread.
This thread is dedicated to Live acts who actually make use of the incredible performance capabilities of Ableton Live.
Please list any acts you know of (psy or otherwise) who actually do something that with Live (or whatever program they may use to perform) and if possible, enlighten us as to techniques they use to make their Live Act so Live.
Producers, this is your chance at shameless self-promotion! Show us why you deserve top billing!
For the purposes of this discussion, Ableton Abuse shall be defined as, "doing something with Ableton that could not be done by simply burning CD's of your material and putting them in the CDJ's."
Any negativity or listing of dead acts will be summarily ignored in this thread and mocked in Private Message format.
To begin:
OOOD (always and forever)
Onkel Dunkel - Wii Controllers!
Axis Mundi - loads of hardware, plus clip-based performance (Jason, tell us what it is you're doing up there!)
Secret Society - damn I dunno, but it looks complicated.
Kilowatts - see Secret Society
  Quantum Frog / Anomalistic
http://soundcloud.com/priapizzm/live-club-axxcis-tokyo-12-12-2010 |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 15:50
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Word.
I've done an experimental live act a few times with another person (it's called Third Mind). Lots and lots of loops chopped from tracks and some made just in the live set. I think for the last set we did at sacred earth I had 13 columns of different sounds, some up to 60 loops in each. His might have been more, we don't even setup our live sets the same way, which makes it more interesting.
Also have 1 send channel and an audio effects rack on each column to play with.
I've done this solo a few times too, wrack on the brain, but lots of fun  .
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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the dog of tears
the dog of tears
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
399
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 19:20
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I just DJ my tracks out of ableton, but I use extra channels to run my analog hardware into. I can run my synth thru tons of beat-matched FX to do complex live synth work on top of my tracks. In the future I'm hoping to incorporate Motu's Volta plug-in into my Live set up. Currently I am using it judiciously in the studio with Logic.
The way I use live is to be able to play my tracks and not have to think about it too much. It takes a lot of concentration to jam a nice synth part out on the cuff.
Any time I've tried to put together a clip-based performance in Live, i run into problems, mainly with having the live mix of many channels of loops sound "good" and "clean." I hate when live acts are scraping the hell out of some digital limiter-- it makes the sound system sound like a death-brick. The way I have it set up, everything runs on it's own dedicated analog output on my motu audio interface, and I have each channel set perfectly so it never even comes close to overloading. If the party only has a 2 channel mixer, then I'm limited to DJing my tracks with no live accompaniment. For a fully-featured live set I like to use about 4 channels-- 2 for DJing tracks, 1 for live synth parts, and 1 for loops recorded on the spot from the synth (cool feature of Ableton). If i have some spooky movie samples or whatever, I'll throw them in the channel 4 column.
Promoters: please provide the DJ booth at parties with it's own generator/power source, to minimize noise and power-supply issues with live sets. I've played far too many live sets where I plug in my laptops powersupply and hear a nasty ground hum that ruins any silent or low-level parts of my set. |
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
1219
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 19:42
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I just watched a video of onkel dunkel's live set and I can see him waving the wiimote around but it doesn't seem to correspond to anything happening in the music. |
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the dog of tears
the dog of tears
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
399
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 20:14
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this is part of the problem with even trying to do some kind of trance live performance-- for the most part the dancers have no clue what yr doing and don't really care.
when i saw monno play he was using the wii remote to control a live synth, i believe. he moves the remote around and uses the XYZ axis to control various parameters of the synth (pitch, filter, etc). |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 20:20
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Medisin
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
86
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 20:34
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Androcell
Androcell
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
409
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 21:06
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HAHA, it was only a matter of time before the classic hand gestures I see dubsteppers do at parties became a physical part of the creation of "wompin" bass. Only drawback to the "ring" device is that it isn't platinum for the real dubstep ballers. I'm sure someone will wire wrap one with gems soon enough. 
Now they just need to figure out how to make the nodding head gestures of stoned hippies in chillout rooms control ambient pad sweeps. I'm seeing a leather/feather headband in my mind. 
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Androcell
Androcell
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
409
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 21:28
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I saw a guy on stage using an iPhone as an accelerometer controller and was waving it all around..... it was so amazing to watch him holding it up as high as he could and shaking it about with a concentrated look on his face... I mean really getting into it. When I asked him about it afterward he was like "huh? Dood, I was trying to get a signal to call my girlfriend".
Sorry, I'm in one of those moods today, heehee.
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MR VOMERS
Moderator
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
2094
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 21:28
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Quote:
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On 2010-06-22 21:06, Androcell wrote:
HAHA, it was only a matter of time before the classic hand gestures I see dubsteppers do at parties became a physical part of the creation of "wompin" bass. Only drawback to the "ring" device is that it isn't platinum for the real dubstep ballers. I'm sure someone will wire wrap one with gems soon enough.
Now they just need to figure out how to make the nodding head gestures of stoned hippies in chillout rooms control ambient pad sweeps. I'm seeing a leather/feather headband in my mind.
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It needs to come with a flat brim baseball hat and some air force one nikes. Perhaps some yellow sunglasses?
WARNING: The Reality Master General has determined that Mr. Vomit may significantly alter your reality. Usage of the knowledge provided by Mr. Vomit may be perceived as dangerous and subversive by those in authority. |
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Omega
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
61
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 21:39
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as far as live acts that do amazing ableton stuff, i think Tom Cosm has to be near or at the top of that list.
also, Evol Intent are doing some pretty cool stuff with their live show - 3 computers, some APC 40's and Lemurs, and some other hardware I can't remember. I played a show with them last fall, and it was pretty dope... there was so much hardware on the table it was pretty hard to follow what they were doing, but i definitely saw some pretty sweet beat-cutting, lemur style.
my currently ableton set up is sort of in a transitional purgatory, pending a properly stable version of Live 8. I have a set where i've got my original tunes rendered out into 4 group stems (bass, drums, synths, other), and the project has a total of 10 channels - 2 groups of 4, so that I have 2 meta-channels of original tunes, plus 2 extra channels where I have other loops, sound fx, and other full songs. I don't really like doing a purely loop based live set, because I feel like it just doesn't fit the style of tunes I write, but I do like having my tunes separated into stems, so that I can do fx processing on each part separately, and do manual looping of parts of tunes mashed into other tunes, and for transitions. All that being said, the Launchpad, which makes controlling that whole mess possible, is a Live 8 only beast, and currently I refuse to perform with Live 8, because it crashes so frequently.
So ATM i'm mostly just DJing with my tracks, but with lots of the parts of tunes available as separate loops, again for transitions and layering. Also, my FX setup is pretty elaborate, I've got a chain of around 35-40 fx, mostly controlled with the aftertouch/pressure sensitive pads of either a Trigger Finger or MPD 32 (depending on how much room i have when I'm packing) - various beatcutters, bitcrushers, delays, filters, rhythmic gates, etc. And again, depending on the packing space and booth situation at the show, I'll also use a KP3 and Kaossilator, and sometimes for local gigs I'll drag out the roland sh-201.
And I definitely agree with dog of tears on the sound quality issue - in my experience, far too many ableton (and other software) users don't seem to know enough about how badly misuse of software can trash the sound quality. whether it's smashing a cheap digital limiter, or using the wrong warp algorithms on the wrong material, there are so many different ways software can wreck your sound. Personally, I'm such a fiend for perfect, crystal clear sound, I'm ridiculously anal about the way my live setup works, and I'm still not 100% satisfied.
for those that might be interested, this is my favorite example of Ableton trashing sound quality, and something that a ton of laptop DJs / performers don't seem to know about:
the complex, and complex pro algorithms put a blanket over your sound, and cause sharp transients to sorta "flop". take a really bright song into ableton, and warp it - first set it to beats, preserve 1/16, with the project tempo set to the native tempo of the song. According to Ableton (and my ears) this should be bit for bit transparent. Now listen for a bit, on good monitors or headphones, and get a feel for the spectrum of the song. Now switch it to "complex" or "complex pro" and listen again... and switch back and forth a couple of times - hear the blanket? now find a section of a track with a really sharp, punchy kick, and warp it on "complex" and move the master tempo around just a bit (a few bpm), and listen to the transient of the kick. Many tracks, even just one or two bpm from native (and sometimes even at native), will start to get weird flopping on the transient of the kick, where every few kicks one will sorta sound like a dud, losing the punch of the transient. Of course the "beats" algorithm has it's own set of problems as soon as you get away from native tempo, the most obviously being the weird "chunking" effect it has on sustained sounds (particularly awful on sine wave sub).
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kahn
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
99
Posts :
786
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 21:43
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Paul Van Dyk these days has an almost entirely live set. His standard setup includes 2 computers (sometimes 2 iMacs, other times 2 Mac Book Pro's). He also usually has 2 keyboard midi controllers (one for each computer), 2 mixing midi controllers (one for each computer), and 2 small sized Virus TI's which he'll use to play some (of his more famous) synth lines fully live. But even when he's not actually playing it out on the keyboard live, he's dropping in loop after loop after loop, reconstructing his tracks, along with creating all new remixes/mashups live right there. Honestly, it doesn't always work 100% on the dancefloor (relating to the other somewhat related thread). But, in terms of the technical aspects, he really is fully utilizing his setup. I wouldn't be surprised to see him take yet another left turn though. He has been working with a full orchestra in Germany on something called the "Music Discovery Project" (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2114100339777815982), and I could see him trying to at least work elements of this into his live sets in the future.
http://www.soundcloud.com/djKAHN |
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Omega
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
61
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 21:47
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Quote:
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On 2010-06-22 21:06, Androcell wrote:
HAHA, it was only a matter of time before the classic hand gestures I see dubsteppers do at parties became a physical part of the creation of "wompin" bass.
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LOL, and I though I was cool making whomps via hand gestures with the chessy d-beam infrared gimmick on my 201  |
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the dog of tears
the dog of tears
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
399
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 23:18
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@ omega-- so finally then, what mode should we warp our tracks as?? i've definitely noticed the "blanket" (more like a bed of nails)... lately i've just been using "pitch" mode cus complex sounds like asscrap and beats just makes the kik sound good but nothing else. shouldn't you have real transparency in pitch mode tho?? seems not, i still hear some slight blanketing, and i hate it.
albeton, wtf is the dizzle on this?!?!? |
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Omega
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
61
Posted : Jun 22, 2010 23:43
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Quote:
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On 2010-06-22 23:18, the dog of tears wrote:
@ omega-- so finally then, what mode should we warp our tracks as?? i've definitely noticed the "blanket" (more like a bed of nails)... lately i've just been using "pitch" mode cus complex sounds like asscrap and beats just makes the kik sound good but nothing else. shouldn't you have real transparency in pitch mode tho?? seems not, i still hear some slight blanketing, and i hate it.
albeton, wtf is the dizzle on this?!?!?
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I wish I had a nice answer 
the way that I've been handling it is just always having the main section of each track warped with the beats [preserve 16th - NEVER use the preserve transients mode, it always sounds like shit], and always make sure the master tempo is = to the native tempo of the song while it's playing. For transitions between songs, I either switch warp algorithms mid-song, or split songs into separate clips for the sections that i want to use the different algorithms form. Basically, when I'm mixing between two songs with diff tempos, I'll use the complex or re-pitch for both, so that at least i don't get the awful bassline chunking of the beats mode, and then when tempo change is over and I'm fully mixed out into the new tune, I'll switch it back to beats. This is sorta hard to explain in text format, but in reality it's pretty simple.
Of course this requires that you always play the main section of every song at it's native tempo, which can severely limit how much additional layering/mashing/etc. can be done.
oh, and as far as the lack of transparency on the re-pitch mode, I'm totally at a loss... I actually find that the beats-preserve 16th mode is actually more transparent at native tempo than the re-pitch at native tempo, which doesn't make any sense at all. |
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