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Normalize Function
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Jan 17, 2006 21:43
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On 2006-01-17 12:58, tsabeat wrote:
further more.. if u make some eq boost on normalized sound it will probably clipped.. what means its distorted. not good way to get clean sound for sure 
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then apply FX, export and normalize 
also, you'll only clip when bosting the fundamental of the sound, and that's not good praticse, i say
  roll a joint or STFU :) |
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Janue
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
514
Posted : Jan 17, 2006 21:48
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If u have something at -6db it shouldnt be normalize ,everything from -6b to 0 need to be normalize
If u are Something, Dont ask for nothing
If u are Nothing, Dont ask for something |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Jan 17, 2006 23:58
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sy000321 :
fruity "normalize" will get you to 0db only if the sampler volume set to 100%. u probably leave it @ 80% and think it is normalized but it is a mistake.
get back to my first reply. and learn fruty "normalize" will get you only to -8.3 db.
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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PsyJar
ZeroSequence
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
132
Posted : Jan 18, 2006 06:32
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On 2006-01-17 15:11, le barde wrote:
i believe people say you loose quality because it increases the noise, but it should be the same thing as put the gain up (but with a peak detection).
if you normalize and then decrease the channel level, it's like don't normalize and put the channel volume up to get same level.
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...well, suppose you have a 0db normalized sample, ...and then,with eq on insert, you boost +2db in the same frequencies where the sample has more energy... now, because it's clipping on channel metters, you bring the volume fader down a bit...
...forget this way of working, ...it's still clipping, you only don't get to see it... Why??? Because the volume fader comes after the insert, and if you have a signal being damaged before the fader, the same damaged signal will be after the fader, ...you just control the volume with it. That's why it won't clip in the channel metters.
To see if this is happening you should use PreFaderMetering. It shows you the levels before the fader control.
"The Light Children Are Awakening!" |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jan 18, 2006 10:18
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you can bring down the fader of the eq or comp or evrything .it s not important to have the sound at 0db,when you record external source like harware synth it is. |
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F@t2
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
21
Posted : Jan 18, 2006 12:44
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On 2006-01-17 19:46, diskOtek wrote:
i use to normalize also.but not everything. for exemple when i have a hihat sample not so loud as the other track elements.i havent noticed any problem then...
but tsabeat is right,if it is overused it may cause distortion.
i think it is useful depending on the quality of the sample
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im agree with you diskOtek , it depends to the quality , i don't really use this function , it was just for my information .
(lalala , i know that it's different )
thanks for informations guys
http://middleroader.free.fr/
http://www.myspace.com/middleroader |
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lalala
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
89
Posted : Jan 18, 2006 15:27
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Wow such fuss about normalise. Yes all it is is a glorified volume control. You want your samples to be loud so that the signal to noise floor is smaller (ie less noise on your tracks). Of course turning the volume up does the same thing but normalisin with a program like wavelab should preserve grain structure and minimise noise.
Eq before you normalise. If normalising creates noise then use a noise reduction program such as waves x-noise.
Again its always best to get sounds outputting loud enough at source not normalise afterwards.
Fruity loops normaliser works the same as any other, bear in mind if you set your normalise control to 0db then it will raise the HIGHEST PEAK to 0db and all the rest by an equal amount. So if you have one peak that is say, 10 db above the rest, normalising may appear to do almost nothing. Thats where compressors come in. |
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index
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
36
Posts :
548
Posted : Jan 18, 2006 15:33
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Quote:
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On 2006-01-17 15:11, le barde wrote:
i believe people say you loose quality because it increases the noise, but it should be the same thing as put the gain up (but with a peak detection).
if you normalize and then decrease the channel level, it's like don't normalize and put the channel volume up to get same level.
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Thats r8.
It just helps to have a standard volume base to mix with.
HTTP://www.decadancerecords.it/audioplug |
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The Tradesman
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
15
Posted : Jan 18, 2006 15:47
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You should process files in before your normalize them, but before you import them to your sequencer i like to work with everything at 0dB. You know everythings at the same starting point then.
If you add EQ/FX on an insert or send your not actually modifying the orignal file unless you bounce it down. I always thought that as long as its not clipping in the channel meter then everythings cool.
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presto music
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
30
Posted : Jan 18, 2006 17:05
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^^. unfortunately not, read PsyJar's post. to check for yourself-
record an audio track peaking at 0dB,
insert an eq on it and boost some frequencies by about 5dB,
see what happens to the level on the eq's output metering- it will be clipping.
leave the eq on but close it and leave the track fader at unity and check your track metering- you'll also be clipping on the track fader.
Now drop your track fader by more than 5/6dB, you wont be clipping on the track anymore,
but have a look in the insert eqs output- you're still clipping aren't you?
The only way to fix this is to lower the output gain of the plugin, or record at a lower level to give yourself more headroom.
lalala, normalising won't minimise noise, it will increase it by the same amount as the rest of the signal, I don't see how using Wavelab would make any difference. |
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lalala
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
89
Posted : Jan 19, 2006 14:43
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lalala, normalising won't minimise noise, it will increase it by the same amount as the rest of the signal, I don't see how using Wavelab would make any difference.
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I think you misunderstand my statement, maybe ill try to put it clearer. When you normalise a file as far as I know the grain structure is recreated but at a higher volume. Different programs use different algorhthms which means some programs may be better at doing this than others. Wavelab is a program which uses fairly accurate algorhythms so noise/distortion/copyerror from the actual normalisation process itself should be minimal (not noise from the original sample).
Of course most people wouldnt notice the difference anyway..... |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Jan 19, 2006 15:21
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Normalising samples isn't a very good idea. Everytime you change the level of a sound you are adding quantisation distortion unless you happen to increase or decrease the level by an exact bit.
It is better to do any gain changes at as high a bit depth as possible. The channels and mix busses of modern DAWs function at 32 bit FP (or 64 bit FP in Sonar) compared to 16 or 24 bit samples. The channel or bus fader is the best place to do any level changes.
As others have mentioned, you can clip a signal within a plugin and not even know it. Some plugins are better than others at this. For instance, Sonar's included plugins all work at 64 bit FP and are very unlikely to clip.
Also, you might get clipping at places you don't expect. For instance, you can have a signal at 0dB, apply a hipass or lowpass filter and end up with a signal above 0dB by removing frequencies that used to cancel out with other frequencies.
One thing to remember about digital audio at 24 bits or more is that you have massive SNR so you really don't have to always be at the maximum level! If your final mix is at -12dBFS, everything is still fine. You can boost the final level during mastering.
UnderTow |
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presto music
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
30
Posted : Jan 19, 2006 15:30
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^^ yep exactly, leave some headroom- i go for about -5dB, this IMO, has given me the best results sonically, and peace of mind that there is no funny business going on inside the inserts...
the whole topic regarding normalising samples is a funny one really, you shouldn't ever find yourself having to do this!! samples are going to come from 2 sources.
1. A sample library, these are pro produced and will be at approx -2dB and therefore no need to increase gain.
2. Or you have recorded them yourself and in that case you are responsible for achieving adequate input level in the first place.
lalala, cool, gotcha.
regards
presto |
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e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
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71
Posts :
933
Posted : Jan 19, 2006 16:12
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UnderTow when you say the best place for changing gain is the channel fader does the same apply to plugin's gain knob? (i mean FX plugins not the synth nor the sampler) |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Jan 19, 2006 16:26
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e-motion, that really depends on the plugin. At least with the channel fader you know that you get 32 Bit FP resolution (or 64). Also, if you just decrease the output gain of a plugin, it might still be clipping internaly without you knowing it.
UnderTow |
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