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No cracks talk here please. Read the guidelines.
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Pypedream
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
245
Posted : Jun 27, 2005 08:37
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@ uccpd:
"only fuckin stupid people go and buy original trance cds too".
Well, I own 175 original albums over 9 years and I have three university degrees in the California State eductional system.
There goes your theory Einstein.
Maybe a high school diploma and decent job will help you pay for some of those programs. Or at least a class in rudimentary english.
  ELECTRON EYES / MARK-EVAN (NOR. CAL)
WWW.SOUNDCLOUD.COM/MARK-EVAN |
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TRapp
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
271
Posted : Jun 27, 2005 15:06
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On 2005-06-27 02:42, Flake_of_Freedom wrote:
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On 2005-06-27 00:50, TRapp wrote:
WHERE THE FUCK WOULD YOU AND YOUR TALENT BE WITHOUT THE SOFTWARE DESIGNERS??
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Well Mr. TRapp, I would playing with my band, and continue writing my music with or with out those software designers.
Respect. Flake.
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Hi Flake....thank you for sharing that....so what you and your band make Psy Trance>???
I dont do the drugs....I AM the drugs |
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High Pulse
Darkpsy
Started Topics :
57
Posts :
1187
Posted : Jun 27, 2005 15:34
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Jun 27, 2005 15:34
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On 2005-06-25 07:45, uccpd wrote:
lets see, well i'm talented, intelegent and realised how stupid i've been spending this loads of money... |
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fyi, that's "intelligent".
I see little positive outcome from a thread such as this, but if folks insist on debating the morality of cracks/mp3s/etc perhaps we should create a Morality section on Isratrance?
It'd at least give people a chance to air out their feelings without feeling like they can't speak their mind.
And as for software designers coming here and finding out that there are cracks of their software... I'm sure cracks are part of their business models and preventative measures will be taken as the market demands it.
I don't see psytrance as being the 'bread and butter' market for most software designers anyways, we're too damned obscure!
peace |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Jun 27, 2005 17:32
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Bikini Blitz
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
27
Posted : Jun 27, 2005 19:02
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Things in life usually tend to become full circle when you least expect it to happen...
Everyone shouts out that software is expensive, you cannot try it before buy, beta testings are not fully functional, etc...etc...etc...
So you use it cracked...
Now you have a few trax done & u need a label that it will sign your trax, and sell if lucky a few thousand copies...but you already know that for every single copy sold there must be 10 downloads & 5 copies, so you know that you are not going to get much money back...
I think that 90% of the people in here in one way or the other uses on a regular base cracked software and copies/downloads music...
So...Karma...You get them they get you...
Cheers
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TRapp
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
271
Posted : Jun 27, 2005 23:19
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ok...fuzzikitten, i am not sure hwy you have the views you have, indeed in the States, PSy trance is obscure..but in other place sit is not....
so lets do some numbers....just to put this all into perspective for you all.
i have a friends who downloads psy cd's of the net, he has 600 different albumns....
so lets say we have 600 different producers...
now either they would be using Cubase or Logic or Sonar....lets take away 100 of them just to average things out etc...assuming maybe some sequence to hardware...
now assuming the majority are using cracked stuff....lets start with sequencing programs...the average sequency program is about $400 just for arguments sake....
so 500 x $400 = $200000 , thats alot of money. and i average it all of big time
now lets get into VSt's, half of us on here are all using Waves....duno if you have checked how much Waves are....i could go on and on....with every program that is used to make music, the numbers add up.....just like the little shitfucks who steal from the artists by downloading mp3's ., the artists steal from the dsoftware developers.....so maybe artist shoul dstop bitching about people downloading until they have original everything.....you gettign tot see the point Fuzzikitten......we are a market for developers...period. And fuzzikitten and Dark Analog and all others who think it is ok to use cracked stuff without buying the original stuff....when devolpers of Phat Vst's go under beacue they cant make a living...because of us and you and everyone else.....then dont come bitching beacue you Dont have an Albino or Vanguard to play on....this is the way things are heading...
THIS POST IS NOT STUPID AND NEITHER IS THIS DEBATE>...ITS A SERIOUS FUCKING ISSUE!!!
represent
p.s grow up children
I dont do the drugs....I AM the drugs |
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ucc
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
316
Posted : Jun 28, 2005 02:43
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i really would prefer to take this discussion live with each one of you, speacially that guy that owns his 9thousands psy tranz originals and has a high school diploma and decent job to able him to get... the world
... just to let you know, that probably a 15% of your collection was concieved using cracked software... didn't you know? let me tell you than, there's lots of people doing money with stealed products... who are the assholes, the companies who are being stealed or you who is supporting them?
sorry Pavel...
to the others, who just felt the need to attack my brilliant "wannabe" post, jump off or ignore if you don't want to let your mind think above to what is used to, and let me have my 15 mins on IsraTranz.
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Jun 28, 2005 03:54
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On 2005-06-27 23:19, TRapp wrote:
ok...fuzzikitten, i am not sure hwy you have the views you have
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so 500 x $400 = $200000 , thats alot of money. |
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I have my views for the same reason I take issue with the big label lawyers that claim mp3s are costing them billions of dollars a year - you cannot extrapolate a 'lost revenue' based on the number of a cracked/downloaded piece of software. The numbers are bad.
If I'm giving away free cars and manage to give away 500 should I then expect to sell 500 cars at the full price? No way.
I guarantee you that any serious software development company takes cracks into account in their business model. It's a fact of doing business in the software industry that some people will use illegal copies of software and that any estimation of sales should include a theft factor.
My impression (and it could be wrong) is that the software VST is a growing market, there are more VSTs than I can even comprehend, and every day it seems like there's more. A growing market means there is more demand than supply, which means it can support a degree of piracy. Heck, if it couldn't support piracy we wouldn't have any softsynths. This is why I don't expect Albino or Vanguard to suddenly go bankrupt any time soon, there's simply too much demand in a market in this stage.
As for the morality of cracks - is it right, is it wrong... if I could argue one way or another then I'd be Jesus. We should all just make up our own minds, make peace with our own gods, and be.
peace |
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TRapp
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
271
Posted : Jun 28, 2005 13:49
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Vst's are a growing market...but there eventually will be a collapse....and i rate there will be more Powercore styled products...or Vst's that come in a USB adapted hardware casing of some sort.....the developers know they are lossing money....already idea's like these are being prototyped and will no doubt be implemented in the future.....pray to god you have many and i mean many USB ports...haha..
I dont do the drugs....I AM the drugs |
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tokolosh
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
76
Posted : Jun 28, 2005 14:18
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Yes Vst's are a growing market and the small companies don’t usually make it in this business but that does not mean that the big ones don’t generate huge amount of money. About mp3's well the music industry has actually grown by quite a lot since music downloads from the net became the norm and I am speaking about illegal downloads not paid like iTunes. The reason for that is that most people download an mp3 of a band or style that they never heard before and then they decide to buy in the shop or on the net. Yes the music industry is loosing a lot of money from mp3 or whatever other formats out there but they are generating huge amount of money that easily covers that small loss. So u could look at mp3 or cracks as a way of product advertising in a market that usually will not be exposed to these products.. |
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daya
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
307
Posted : Jun 29, 2005 02:40
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"I guarantee you that any serious software development company takes cracks into account in their business model. It's a fact of doing business in the software industry that some people will use illegal copies of software and that any estimation of sales should include a theft factor."
(good point)
"...only fuckin stupid people go and buy original trance cds too". (its depend, if you can't afford it than YES)
"...let me tell you than, there's lots of people doing money with stealed products.....(agree, and this is a global classic story from the centuries til this minutes include spice trades, stealing land , etc etc and usualy the person that steal the bread because of hungry got the worst punishment and the big thief smoke cigar)
"...i really would prefer to take this discussion live with each one of you, speacially that guy that owns his 9thousands psy tranz originals and has a high school diploma..(this diploma thingy did not imprezz me at all also, who give a fk with your degrees, its worst than cheesy to me or he just proud to be brainwashed for that long years)
"The reason for that is that most people download an mp3 of a band or style that they never heard before and then they decide to buy in the shop or on the net. (Sharing MP3 have a huge impact for artist fame ...in term of promotion. I will spend some extra $$$ to the party/fest sometimes to see/hear the artist that I like).
"...just like the little shitfucks who steal from the artists by downloading mp3's" (as above, Listener make the artist fame and the more number listeners, the most famous they are, and they will have a busy tour and "rockstar" style flying above the globe surface)
"...every track on todays with a fat kickdrum and farting bass is dark right?:" (i think people are free to express their style and their uniquenes)
"So...Karma...You get them they get you..."
(thats it so far)
"WHERE THE FUCK WOULD YOU AND YOUR TALENT BE WITHOUT THE SOFTWARE DESIGNERS??"
(do they really DESIGN them or they DEVELOPE em? I think they just developing them. Aren't most human now intense to develope things? (in order to develope you have to destroy something else like killing the big tree to produce the piece grand piano cover, etc and talent is natural, it doesn't produced by the the third party, there is many way to get to Rome...)
sharing is good, and don't blame the smoke (PM is good too  ) founder http://www.enkienterprise.com
founder http://www.blacksheephybrid |
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Pypedream
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
245
Posted : Jun 29, 2005 05:10
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On 2005-06-29 02:40, daya wrote:
"...i really would prefer to take this discussion live with each one of you, speacially that guy that owns his 9thousands psy tranz originals and has a high school diploma..(this diploma thingy did not imprezz me at all also, who give a fk with your degrees, its worst than cheesy to me or he just proud to be brainwashed for that long years)
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Of course you're going to offend a few people when you take a shot at those who are choosing to spend their hard earned money by knowingly paying for services and products that could be obtained for free. Some do it because it's ethical, and some to do it to support the artists who help propagate the psytrance scene. The fact is the industry will not survive without a continuous revenue stream. Understand that music is ART, and some people simply like to own the original art in it's entirety.
This is to the point "only f#*n stupid people go and buy original trance c.d.'s". Help the rest of us connect the dots and understand how that makes us "stupid". That we are somehow "brainwashed". That working class people paying into the industry are lesser than you.
Collect your warez. Burn your discs. But when you come on an open forum and refer to a group of people as assholes as (uccpd) did, you're going to get a strong response. If you can't stomach that, consider your topics and dialogue more carefully.
ELECTRON EYES / MARK-EVAN (NOR. CAL)
WWW.SOUNDCLOUD.COM/MARK-EVAN |
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ucc
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
316
Posted : Jun 29, 2005 05:43
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it was never my intention to get anyone offended by any means, though it happened. each one of us have a own education, we've created our values while living... it's not my dutty nor my right to tell what's wrong and rigth, but i'm glad if someone gaved me credit for it  , it's just about a 'living in comunity' thing... We, by nature are already descriminated in the world of music, the better would be to live in peace beetween us, goas, psiers, darkers, vamps, hyperactives, while here, still we are a comunity that is in some way, integrated and dependent of others...
the idea is not to take credit from any, but as a so open known community that the isra and any trance related are, opinions are to be friendly discussed, and... accepted, we are not planning any terrorist attacks, it isn't that difficult to read a ridiculous, halucinated and freaking impossible opinions and accept them, we just need to take a little while to think about them, at least someone gaved you the privilege and shared his freakin thoughts on whatever... even if in the end you're just commenting how nutter the bloke is!
... if any ones on to a fight, i prefer to do it on the dancefloor, not bitching on the forum!
;p |
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High Pulse
Darkpsy
Started Topics :
57
Posts :
1187
Posted : Jun 29, 2005 11:48
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