neurotranz

On 2009-06-25 14:32, Axis Mundi wrote:
You don't have to be stuck with sixteenth notes. Triplets, eighth or quarter notes are plausible alternatives.

On 2009-06-26 06:40, ocelot wrote:
the tracks ive heard with decent bass had very sloppy envelopes on the bassline that made 16th note indistinguishable and thus a nice drone bed that conveniently dropped out for every kick more or less... couple that with bouncing it to audio and some editing and its more or less fixed... thats the rumbling doom bassline... works ok i guess if you want only that kind.

the weirder phenomena to me is all these people want to make it "dark" which means absurdly low bassline tunings- where sometimes the fundamental is not even a note but a rhythm or a gurgle sometimes even and you hear only the crappy phruzz up top...
then you couple this with hi-hat patterns of solid 16th notes
and so the low bass and the hi-hat sound out of synch with each other! the hihat is up there racing way and the bassline is lumbering along and the whole thing is ummm not very rhythmical but somehow has the elements in there and is mimic-ing more or less a trance kinda thing...

1/8th notes and legato (sloppy) 16th basslines are the only hope for fast trance...

but seriously- on the fast topic. its not like its new or anything. people have had the whole range of bpms to choose from ya know since the dawn of motherfucking time.
house is over here on the left- slower, hardcore/gabber is over there on the right - faster-
usually d-n-b/jungle is somewhere between trance and gabber ya know...
i remember OOOD even had a 160bpm track back in the day. some of the middle 90's psy music was up in the 150's already. whipping up a storm of acid lines.
it seemed a bit silly then and it seems silly to me now.
don't like above 148 or so...doesn't wiggle right... feels rushed and late for work. or small and smoking crack and scratching at scabs. smells like teenage boys socks. its dorky like ragtime or those old movies sped up... silly. funny. cartoony. good for comic relief. not serious trance.
i like serious trance.
there is mystic shit to the 140's and humans....
i dont know. i just don't buy any of this theoretical crap for speeding up. it seems like thats the problem in modern life a bit.
the psychedelic quality of the music should come from the depth of expression and magic of the sound.
not from whipping the midgets harder and telling them to run faster.
stop whipping the midgets.

On 2009-06-26 10:30, Axis Mundi wrote:

Quote:

On 2009-06-26 06:40, ocelot wrote: the tracks ive heard with decent bass had very sloppy envelopes on the bassline that made 16th note indistinguishable and thus a nice drone bed that conveniently dropped out for every kick more or less... couple that with bouncing it to audio and some editing and its more or less fixed... thats the rumbling doom bassline... works ok i guess if you want only that kind. the weirder phenomena to me is all these people want to make it "dark" which means absurdly low bassline tunings- where sometimes the fundamental is not even a note but a rhythm or a gurgle sometimes even and you hear only the crappy phruzz up top... then you couple this with hi-hat patterns of solid 16th notes and so the low bass and the hi-hat sound out of synch with each other! the hihat is up there racing way and the bassline is lumbering along and the whole thing is ummm not very rhythmical but somehow has the elements in there and is mimic-ing more or less a trance kinda thing... 1/8th notes and legato (sloppy) 16th basslines are the only hope for fast trance... but seriously- on the fast topic. its not like its new or anything. people have had the whole range of bpms to choose from ya know since the dawn of motherfucking time. house is over here on the left- slower, hardcore/gabber is over there on the right - faster- usually d-n-b/jungle is somewhere between trance and gabber ya know... i remember OOOD even had a 160bpm track back in the day. some of the middle 90's psy music was up in the 150's already. whipping up a storm of acid lines. it seemed a bit silly then and it seems silly to me now. don't like above 148 or so...doesn't wiggle right... feels rushed and late for work. or small and smoking crack and scratching at scabs. smells like teenage boys socks. its dorky like ragtime or those old movies sped up... silly. funny. cartoony. good for comic relief. not serious trance. i like serious trance. there is mystic shit to the 140's and humans.... i dont know. i just don't buy any of this theoretical crap for speeding up. it seems like thats the problem in modern life a bit. the psychedelic quality of the music should come from the depth of expression and magic of the sound. not from whipping the midgets harder and telling them to run faster. stop whipping the midgets.

With all due respect, dude, how many different ways can you say the same thing?

As one who prefers faster music, I have to say there is still a lot of stuff coming out that is still in the 140's range. Both by newer and established artists.

I do agree with you about the indistinguishable 16th note bass. It's very noticeable in faster music and when you're looking at it in Cubase, for example, the note lengths have to be so small to tell them apart in their sound that you almost can't see them any more and at that point the bass has the punch of a feather pillow anyway.

I happen to like the "cat's purr" bass as well as the punchy meaty bass of the 140's range. But I agree that running sixteenths all the way through isn't too exciting. Like you and I have said already, using longer note lengths makes for meatier bass.

Not trying to offend, but asking because I'm genuinely interested in your answers, but anyway...
What is "serious" trance? The way you describe it, it must be a similar pre-defined set of criteria which you and others have either forged or settled into, and the more one experiments or deviates from that criteria, the less one is to be taken seriously. But I don't think that's what you really mean.

I don't see trance as a microcosm for life in that the speeding up on the music reflects the rest of the world. Most of global society lives their life at a similar pace since hundreds of years, the world still rotates and revolves at a similar speed (although it too is slowly speeding up as our orbit pulls us closer to the sun) and it's only "niche" societies like ours that seem to be speeding up. Like you already mentioned, there has been faster and slower music in all genres since the beginning of time. Polka, speed metal and classical come to mind. Trance isn't behaving any differently from that.

What would our modern day reaction be if we heard one classical composer tell another classical composer that his music wasn't classical any more because it was too fast? It would sound kind of silly to us, wouldn't it?

Come to think of it, why ARE we settling on sixteenth notes for bass? Or for anything? Why are we settling on 4/4 timing when there are so many others out there? For example, make a 5/4 track at 165 bpm and move the kick and bass intervals away from each other? Suddenly you have room for a lot of really crazy rhythms. Or change the length of your bars... instead of 4/4/4/4, make another division of 16, like 5/2/6/3.

I guess things like that depends on how much "psychedelic" and how much "dancefloor" you put in your personal recipes.

Of course those kinds of questions "possibly" imply dancefloor-unfriendly music. But who cares? How much music do we listen to on a dancefloor vs. off? WHy should a true artist stick to any of those formulas (unless, of course, that's his intention)?

but a music should feel right or natural. thats why a track is played at a certain speed- you don't speed up a track or slow it down a lot. it loses the sense of proportion and balance between the various elements. even the sounds change...

i do not deny the creative possibilities.
you can certainly play around and maybe you will be the one who discovers a new genre?

but - this music thats psy-trance but fast
i don't like it. (subjective)
it sounds wrong in every possible way.


why should a true artist stick to formulas you say. and i say why even genres?
make your own.

so this fast dukka dukka is also a formula.
cliche. done. boring. beenthere, donethat, next...