| Author
|
neonazism in russian psyscene
|
dr. luv
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
12
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 09:44
|
Oh, by the way - I, like an increasing number of people all over the world, am tired of Israelis manipulatively using the victimhood-driven claim of anti-semitism to suppress debate over current cruel and racist Israeli state foreign and domestic policies.
But that should not desensitize us to the fact that nazism, swastika-like imagery, etc., causes a visceral response of revulsion in most Jews that is entirely understandable. The historical fact of the murderous, savage inhumanity of the German Nazis (and their collaborators in European countries) from 1933-45 is not something that most Jews can not just simply ignore. If you haven't been the target of vicious racism yourself you might not really get it, but at least don't condemn this Isra topic starter, Alias, for bringing this to our attention. Perhaps "neonazism in russian psyscene" itself is not such a big thing (at the moment), but at least it gets us discussing and thinking (hopefully) about the various trends in the psy trance scene that today's apathetic, dumbed-down, me-first demographic would prefer to avoid (but that's another thread).
1 luv, 1 heart, let's get together...
...and feel alright. |
|
|
Sound Surgeon
Crater / Mish-kah
Started Topics :
250
Posts :
2244
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 10:06
|
You just love fighting and arguing here and looking for a reason to start a clash.
bloodthirsty?
|
|
|
|
Cyber Punk
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
29
Posts :
759
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 10:16
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-02-19 09:44, dr. luv wrote:
Oh, by the way - I, like an increasing number of people all over the world, am tired of Israelis manipulatively using the victimhood-driven claim of anti-semitism to suppress debate over current cruel and racist Israeli state foreign and domestic policies.
eel alright.
|
|
BTW, it is a very racistic comment...
What you wanted to say ?
 -=Lead System Designer=- |
|
|
|
Orient
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
31
Posts :
63
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 11:01
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-02-16 14:47, Alias wrote:
in russian psy board aeroboard.ru....big topic
wich calling to kill....black ppl, jews, caucasian nationalities, chinese and other "non russian" ppl
disgusting
http://aeroboard.ru/viewtopic.php?t=14706
|
|
May I venture a suggestion that a couple of crazy drunk jerks (most likely, underage) are not quite "psyscene"... 
*
|
|
|
|
Leta
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
6
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 11:57
|
Everyone from aeroboard knows about this topic. You can see their comments here. They are discussing us in a new theme already.
They are not racists even, they are addicts and waste of society. They are the kind of people with No Brain - No Pain. I offer to close this conversation to avoid their society.
IN THIS CASE, I AM THE RACIST!
ciao
Citizen of the World |
|
|
|
Adigroovy
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
24
Posts :
1647
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 12:19
|
[quote]
On 2007-02-18 18:40, DETOX wrote:
Quote:
|
ADIGROOVY the questions i made reflect my personal believes so i dont have to speak more about me i guess.Let me give you an example,while i was studying in New York University (NYU) in New York City i was sitting next to a great Chinese girl and my best friend was a big fat black guy who seemed like he popped up from a gangster rap movie or something,amazing and funny guy i tell you.Although i was hanging with him all day and although i had and still have many different colour friends in my life i got to admit that i looked him differently than people of my own colour and nationality,pay attention i looked him differently not negatively,i dont know if that makes me a racist or not.To be honest though if my daughter came up with a black guy as her future husband i got to admit that i would feel really strange and maybe even bad about it,the why is a big discussion that cant be discussed in public i guess,does that make me a racist?If yes then i guess i am a racist.
|
|
Well Detox if you gave your personal example I will give you mine: i suffered one of the latest conflicts at Balcans concretly in Croatia and Bosnia, that means lost of some close people of some friends that meant the total change in my life. The ones who were shooting at us /me (in this case Serbians) were the responsable of our situation, and that had me to look different to a Serbian,? well I can tell you the only way i understood we can build something between all and live an normal and peacfull life is by judging a person by person by your own experiences and criteria and not becasue for example all the croatian tv´s or politics says that all serbians are bad. So at this moment I don´t hate serbians even my best frie3nd is serbian, at second place if my daughter tomorrow meets a man that she loves and that´s she happy with i woud not give fuck if he is serbian, black, jewish or whateva. o in stead of generalising better look person by person, but I see at your comments the prejudices you have.
Boom
to use your head you have to go out of your mind |
|
|
|
Adigroovy
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
24
Posts :
1647
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 12:19
|
|
by the way i think is better not to wate any energy more on this.
to use your head you have to go out of your mind |
|
|
|
dr. luv
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
12
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 14:05
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-02-19 10:16, Cyber Punk wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2007-02-19 09:44, dr. luv wrote:
Oh, by the way - I, like an increasing number of people all over the world, am tired of Israelis manipulatively using the victimhood-driven claim of anti-semitism to suppress debate over current cruel and racist Israeli state foreign and domestic policies.
eel alright.
|
|
BTW, it is a very racistic comment...
What you wanted to say ?
|
|
----
racism, (noun) - belief that some races are by nature inferior or superior to others (Webster dict.)
----
You've totally misunderstood what I said. Amazing. I just spent two posts defending the original Israeli poster's bringing our attention to neo-nazism, and arguing against nazism and racism. The second post was to say that despite Israeli state policies we should still be concerned about nazism.
In the entirety of my two posts that seek to defend against racism, you've picked one paragraph in the second post in which I expressed an opinion against Israeli state policies. In calling me racist, you've perfectly demonstrated the exact phenomenon that I mention in that paragraph. Perhaps I wasn't clear. Let me try that paragraph again:
1. I, like many people in the world, believe the policies of the Israeli state to be cruel and racist.
2. Whenever anyone makes a criticism of Israeli state policies, Israelis complain that it is racist/anti-semitic to do so.
3. I, and many people in the world, believe this complaint to be a way that Israelis use to shut down and censor any criticism of Israeli state policies.
To say that I have a problem with Israeli state policies is not the same as saying Jews are inferior. To say that Israelis should not try to censor discussion about Israeli state policies is not the same as saying as Jews are inferior.
Is that so hard to understand?
If I say, for example, that I am opposed to Norwegian whaling operations in the north Atlantic, does that mean I am racist against Norwegian people? Then, if I say that I don't want Norwegian people to stop me from expressing my views on Norwegian whaling, does that mean I am racist against Norwegian people?
We're talking about the behaviour of people and governements here, not their racial characteristics.
Use. Your. Common. Sense. How can I be anti-nazi and racist against Jews at the same time...?
Perhaps I have said something racist, in which case, can you please take me through what I have said and explain to me how it is racist, so that I might learn something from you.
Meanwhile...where were we, ah yes, neonazism in Russian psy scene... just a couple of quick suggestions for taking action:
1. how about putting "No nazis!" on party fliers?
2. how about, in the spirit of the Dead Kennedys' great track 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off!', some of the excellent Russian psy trance artists do a one-time collaboration called 'Nazi trancers fuck off!' Maybe this collaboration could call themselves the Dead Romanovs...? |
|
|
|
Cyber Punk
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
29
Posts :
759
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 14:29
|
Quote:
|
----
racism, (noun) - belief that some races are by nature inferior or superior to others (Webster dict.)
----
You've totally misunderstood what I said. Amazing. I just spent two posts defending the original Israeli poster's bringing our attention to neo-nazism, and arguing against nazism and racism. The second post was to say that despite Israeli state policies we should still be concerned about nazism.
In the entirety of my two posts that seek to defend against racism, you've picked one paragraph in the second post in which I expressed an opinion against Israeli state policies. In calling me racist, you've perfectly demonstrated the exact phenomenon that I mention in that paragraph. Perhaps I wasn't clear. Let me try that paragraph again:
1. I, like many people in the world, believe the policies of the Israeli state to be cruel and racist.
2. Whenever anyone makes a criticism of Israeli state policies, Israelis complain that it is racist/anti-semitic to do so.
3. I, and many people in the world, believe this complaint to be a way that Israelis use to shut down and censor any criticism of Israeli state policies.
To say that I have a problem with Israeli state policies is not the same as saying Jews are inferior. To say that Israelis should not try to censor discussion about Israeli state policies is not the same as saying as Jews are inferior.
Is that so hard to understand?
If I say, for example, that I am opposed to Norwegian whaling operations in the north Atlantic, does that mean I am racist against Norwegian people? Then, if I say that I don't want Norwegian people to stop me from expressing my views on Norwegian whaling, does that mean I am racist against Norwgian poeple?
Use. Your. Common. Sense. How can I be anti-nazi and[i] racist against Jews at the same time...?
Perhaps I have said something racist, in which case, can you please take me through what I have said and explain to me how it is racist, so that I might learn something from you.
|
|
OK OK, not a racistic in dictionary meaning,
but a comment full of prejudices and generalizations...
Better ?
Quote:
|
1. I, like many people in the world, believe the policies of the Israeli state to be cruel and racist.
|
|
You can believe in whatever you want, believes are irrationals, and things are not true just because you are believing in them.
(BTW, some ppl beleive that whites are superior...)
Quote:
|
2. Whenever anyone makes a criticism of Israeli state policies, Israelis complain that it is racist/anti-semitic to do so.
|
|
What, all 100% of israelies are doing the same ? hmm....
Quote:
|
3. I, and many people in the world, believe this complaint to be a way that Israelis use to shut down and censor [i]any criticism of Israeli state policies.
|
|
Believes... once more... nothing to say.
And another generalization...
Quote:
|
To say that I have a problem with Israeli state policies is not the same as saying Jews are inferior. To say that Israelis should not try to censor discussion about Israeli state policies is not the same as saying as Jews are inferior.
Is that so hard to understand?
|
|
No, what is really hard to understand is your comment.
I guess if it would for example psyforum.co.uk, you wouldn't post such things.
-=Lead System Designer=- |
|
|
|
dr. luv
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
12
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 15:02
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-02-19 14:29, Cyber Punk wrote:
OK OK, not a racistic in dictionary meaning,
but a comment full of prejudices and generalizations...
Better ?
|
|
Sorry, just a bit better. Which prejudices, where, please explain.
Generalizations - when one discusses state government policies or the behaviour of a body of people, one speaks generally; in intelligent discourse it's assumed that it's not needed to say every time, 'Generally, but of course there are exceptions...bla bla bla'
Just like, on a discussion board whose very purpose is to give opinions, it's not necessary to so often say 'in my opinion...'
Quote:
|
On 2007-02-19 14:29, Cyber Punk wrote:
You can believe in whatever you want, believes are irrationals, and things are not true just because you are believing in them.
(BTW, some ppl beleive that whites are superior...)
|
|
Huh? Do you have anything interesting to say about the substance of my main point, and the main point of this thread, that we should be vigilant against nazism in psytrance...or not? Is wandering off-topic okay when Isratrance Team members try to dig themselves out of a hole?
I try to base my beliefs on sound research and sober analysis and reflection to minimize irrationality. What's your approach? Which of my beliefs do you believe to be irrational? And why are you making accusations without being specific and giving me an opportunity to address them?
Quote:
|
On 2007-02-19 14:29, Cyber Punk wrote:
Quote:
|
2. Whenever anyone makes a criticism of Israeli state policies, Israelis complain that it is racist/anti-semitic to do so.
|
|
What, all 100% of israelies are doing the same ? hmm....
|
|
See above, re: generalisations when speaking about a body of people. Any Israeli who doesn't try to censor discussion about their government's policies is welcome to exclude themselves from the generalization. Why are you persisting in going further with this off-topic?
Quote:
|
On 2007-02-19 14:29, Cyber Punk wrote:
Believes... once more... nothing to say.
|
|
I see that.
Quote:
|
On 2007-02-19 14:29, Cyber Punk wrote:
Quote:
|
Is that so hard to understand?
|
|
No, what is really hard to understand is your comment.
|
|
Which one? I'll try to explain it to you again.
|
|
|
|
Cyber Punk
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
29
Posts :
759
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 15:18
|
Quote:
|
Huh? Do you have anything interesting to say about the substance of my main point, and the main point of this thread, that we should be vigilant against nazism in psytrance...or not? Is wandering off-topic okay when Isratrance Team members try to dig themselves out of a hole?
|
|
Yes, I have smth to say, and I alredy said that. Just check the previous page.
Quote:
|
Which one? I'll try to explain it to you again.
|
|
This one:
Quote:
|
Oh, by the way - I, like an increasing number of people all over the world, am tired of Israelis manipulatively using the victimhood-driven claim of anti-semitism to suppress debate over current cruel and racist Israeli state foreign and domestic policies.
eel alright.
|
|
-=Lead System Designer=- |
|
|
|
shamanizer
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
367
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 15:26
|
Cyber Punk - Check the previous posts if you didnt quite get it. Actually i dont understand why you feel offended when someone criticises Israeli government policies, i dont see anything racist in it and the policies speak for themselves, sad but true...
Sorry for meddling with off topic, but just couldnt keep my mouth shut. |
|
|
|
KakoOlalaJwal
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
2565
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 15:29
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-02-19 14:05, dr. luv wrote:
2. how about, in the spirit of the Dead Kennedys' great track 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off!', some of the excellent Russian psy trance artists do a one-time collaboration called 'Nazi trancers fuck off!' Maybe this collaboration could call themselves the Dead Romanovs...?
|
|
There's a "Nazi Trance Fuck Off!" existing, written by Blackstrobe, with an Holden remix.. But the Blackstrobe guyz said in an interview it's not related to the Dead Kennedys song..
About the thread, well.. hmmm..
Dunno, I prefer focusing on positive things than wasting time/energy with such things that give me the feeling of "entering the twilight zone".. Looks like some people here won't never change..
.
.
"Get your dose of BoOgie !"
http://www.bunkum-records.com
http://www.myspace.com/zekakoo |
|
|
|
dr. luv
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
12
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 15:29
|
Quote:
|
On 2007-02-19 15:18, Cyber Punk wrote:
Yes, I have smth to say, and I alredy said that. Just check the previous page.
Quote:
|
Which one? I'll try to explain it to you again.
|
|
This one:
Quote:
|
Oh, by the way - I, like an increasing number of people all over the world, am tired of Israelis manipulatively using the victimhood-driven claim of anti-semitism to suppress debate over current cruel and racist Israeli state foreign and domestic policies.
eel alright.
|
|
|
|
I've already explained that. Just check my second post above.
I think we're done here. Cheers! |
|
|
|
Bender B. Rodriguez
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
292
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 15:29
|
I just want to make comment regarding the whole topic:
It took no more than 6 pages to completly disintigrate the concept of PLUR, in wich many people from the psyscene could swear in, and not only that, it acctualy stured up a lot of other things...
For me it just goes to show , (as I thought it would) how lots of things are just superficial and fake.
SPQR |
|
|
|
|
