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need some ideas and opinions please :)
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darclon
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
14
Posted : Nov 19, 2004 18:40
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hello all! im working sometimes more and sometimes less on making psy music since almost 2 years now. ive got a p4 2.8ghz, an old roland digital mixer (vm-7100) and an old echo gina20bit soundcard. for synthesis im using a k-station and alot of vsti's and vst's. well my sound is ok for that im working with software EQs. but now im getting a bunch of money and im thinking about buying a bunch of new hardware. i want to make more powerfull sounds. i want more transparency, more punch and more clarity in my tracks. i want to get a "big" step closer to the "professional" sounding music! but im not quite sure what kind of hardware i should buy. well for sure a new soundcard and a new mixer (analog)... but what kind of EQs and effects should i get? i want to work at 24bit and 96khz, that should already change alot on the accuracy and quality of my sounds. and what do you think about the TC electronics powercore firewire? im thinking about buying it...what do you think?
got any suggestion for me? soundcard, mixer, eq, etc.? i just want to be able to produce more transparent and more powerful music than i was doing untill now with my software! i got around 6000euro to spend for all this. maybe also a bit more... please give me some ideas and suggestions! thank you 
-peace
  Oo° i am playing the Game° the one that will take me to my end° I am waiting for the rain° to wash who i am °oO |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Nov 19, 2004 18:54
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A 24 bit soundcard is always a good idea but I wouldn't bother with 96Khz. It won't make much difference to the sound. You won't even be able to hear the difference on a typical PA.
If your music is lacking punch and clarity it will probably help much more if your read up on mixing techniques.
The TC Powercore sounds like a nice addition to any PC based DAW. Also check out the Universal Audio UAD-1.
Also I would personaly not invest in too much outboard effects processors unless you have extra money to spend. Hardware synths on the other hand are a good investement IMO because I find the hands on feeling to be much more conducive to creativity. Maybe a Virus TI when it comes out?
UnderTow |
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ketzah
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
71
Posted : Nov 19, 2004 19:00
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Wow
Very good chance you have!
1.1) Nice Mackie Mixer 1642-VLZ Pro
1.2) TC Electronics powercore for sure.....
1.3) MF-105 MuRF Moog Analog Filter!!
2) Nord Modular G2.
3) SX 3
4) Genelec 1037C
Tri-amplified Monitoring System
voila monsieur
ps. If you make your "open studio" party, dont forget to invite huh?
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FluoSamsara (Oxygen)
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
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1164
Posted : Nov 19, 2004 19:09
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Quote:
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On 2004-11-19 19:00, ketzah wrote:
4) Genelec 1037C
Tri-amplified Monitoring System
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Huy ketza, u mean tri-amplified or a three speaker setup? |
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Epsylon
Artist
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
41
Posted : Nov 20, 2004 05:55
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all of the above is cool
but you need to bring the sound in the pc too
here's the killer soundcard and bloody cheap for what it is !
http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?product=2211&category=754&maincategory=754
It's the only solution at this price that gives unbeatable 130 db S/N ratio, for clarity when you're recording your external gear.
You'll need the highest resolution of the soundcard to do your masters. Ppl that can't hear a difference in quality from 44.1/48 khz to 96/192 khz should see a doctor. I'm sorry but its true. There's no debate on the subject anymore.
you don't really need the mixer unless you wanna use the pre-amps to rec vocals.(the mackie vlz preamps are top notch)
my mackie is sitting there doing nothing
get a nice hardware controller to psysically move knobs and sliders on the pc and you're fine.
The modular was on my list for Xmas til I clocked the virus TI
So i 'd personally go for the virus. Its xtreme integration with the sequencer will blow some heads away and can't be beaten @ the mo.
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| If your music is lacking punch and clarity it will probably help much more if your read up on mixing techniques. |
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Absolutely true. Although, in a recording situation, everything counts, even matching the cables properly and conditioning your power supply to avoid ground loops.
You won't buy gear every day , so since you can, go for the best you can afford.
Powercore is sweet but check for compatibility with your system. Quite a few peeps get probs with it. Do a search on Google. I prefer the powercore over the UAD. (more DSP power and you can run a software Virus synth on it too)
just my 2 p,
c. k.
ps: always use your ears and don't buy something, just because someone else has it , unless your ears tell you so. - www.djchristos.com
- www.illuminaughty.eu |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Nov 20, 2004 16:03
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Quote:
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On 2004-11-20 05:55, Epsylon wrote:
Ppl that can't hear a difference in quality from 44.1/48 khz to 96/192 khz should see a doctor. I'm sorry but its true. There's no debate on the subject anymore.
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Yes there is as you just responded to my comment. If you can hear the difference between 44.1Khz and 96Khz on a big PA, you need a new soundcard with better anti-aliasing filters. The filters make much more of a difference than the sampling rate itself.
Note that I am not talking about listening to accoustic recordings on high-end speakers/monitors in an accousticaly treated studio. I am talking about psytrance on big PAs in a typical party environment.
I use 96Khz for recording cellos, accoustic guitars, pianos, brass instruments and stuff like that. But I use 44.1Khz for psytrance.
Btw, my hearing is fine. I got checked at the hospital in Januray and my ears have a flat response up to 19.5Khz. Better than most 16 year olds. (And I am not 16 any more by a long shot  .
UnderTow |
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ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
4
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663
Posted : Nov 20, 2004 16:27
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Epsylon,
"You'll need the highest resolution of the soundcard to do your masters. Ppl that can't hear a difference in quality from 44.1/48 khz to 96/192 khz should see a doctor. I'm sorry but its true. There's no debate on the subject anymore. "
lol.,., this is such bullcrap.,
it may be true for recording subtle acousical instruments like a guitar or violin,.
but in the synthetic world of psy it doesnt matter at all.,
the difference is 'it sounds different'
i'm sure that if i do a A-B test with you between 44.1 and 96khz produced psy you could not tell which is which.,
for christs sake, most people have problems telling mp3 from wav!! .,
also, the increase in samplerate can hide some forms of mathematical problems in some software.,., which means that the software is crap to begin with .., so the problem is often not the samplerate but the inexperience of the synth makers.,.,
i think it's wiser to choose 'sweet' sounding software instead of using a higher samplerate.,
one good (bad) example of such software is Reason.,
you can clearly hear a difference between 44.1khz and 96khz operation.,
in Reason this has a reason, because it's super-efficient., but this efficiency does have a serious impact on quality.,
also, most music will be mastered to around 11khz or so (so that's only a quarter of the samplingrate), so that leaves a bit of oversampling of the signal.,
if you dont belive me just use a spectrograph and see how much energy above 10khz there is in a typical psy production,,.
ooh, and also, i realy realy advice you to try the modular above the virus., you've got no idea how many sounds you can get out of it,.
true, the new virus line is very nice, but when it comes to sheer weirdness, programmability, originality, fatness and again weirdness, then clavia is seriously above any other digital synth on the market,.
but it can be a difficult beast to tame.,
"You won't buy gear every day , so since you can, go for the best you can afford."
yeah, this is definitely true.,
and i'd like to add that you should look at your NEEDS first and WHISHES later.,
so buy what you feel you need in your studio instead of looking at the nice pictures in the reviews
THINK about your studio and what kinds of things you want to do in the near future.,
anyway,
greets,
aka, |
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ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
663
Posted : Nov 20, 2004 16:30
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undertow,
lol.,, you beat me to it
greets.,
aka. |
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Rishi
Rishi
Started Topics :
50
Posts :
244
Posted : Nov 20, 2004 16:33
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Sorry to bud in on this topic , but i am soon in the same situation as darclon, and i could use the same advise , .
Maybe someone could Pm me if we shouldnt discuss it in here ?
3ó BooOoM ShanKaRA 3ó
<<<<Full On Dreams Vol 1 Out now>>>>
www.virustekk.com |
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ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
663
Posted : Nov 20, 2004 16:42
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darclon,
" i want to get a "big" step closer to the "professional" sounding music!"
well, then you not only need tools, you also need skills!!!!
you need to get experience with how different bits of gear can help you get a pro sound.,
because tools are just tools and the rest is between your ears.,
i've heared good pro tunes comming from systems that have much lower specs than you have right now!!
there is no big red button .,.,
YOU will have to become experienced enough to make it.,
and in that learning experience you will start to understand why you need certain gear and what sounds good and what sounds baad.,
it's no use having a fat expensive compressor if you dont know how to use it properly.,
greets.,
aka. |
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Nov 20, 2004 17:58
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well i think u should buy a powercore / uad -1 , bacause it will help u free of the plugins always chocking the cpu and i know how frustrating tht moment is ...
and u want to improve on the quality ... lean how to mix better , improve ur knowledge on various aspects of sound and wait pateintly for your ears to develop as u cant hurry with that ....
i think 48 k / 32 bit float is excellent resolution to work and dont worry too much about the 96 k ..
most vsti sound amazing on 48 k ... trust me ...
even if u get all hardware equipemt .... without the proper knwledge its all waste ... i know compression and reverbs very well .... but i think i must improve on other aspects of the sound ... so i dont worry about getting hardware ....
when u can killl the software , then its time for hardware ... golden bottomline ..
if there is still scope for improvement within the software realm , u still gotta improve ...
good luck .. all the best
respect .. chandan |
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darclon
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
14
Posted : Nov 21, 2004 05:51
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thanks all for your replys!!
what do you think about the creamware scope professional system? compared to the tc electronics powercore firewire and the Universal Audio UAD-1?
-peace
Oo° i am playing the Game° the one that will take me to my end° I am waiting for the rain° to wash who i am °oO |
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Kitnam
Mantik
Started Topics :
110
Posts :
1151
Posted : Nov 21, 2004 09:39
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hey dude,
if you realy want to make nice music you need nice equitment. but if you want to make very nice music which seperates from other home-produced stuff you have to invest your money into pure knowledge and know-how. one good book for 50 € is often more than 2000 € for a hardwaremixer you cant handle professionaly. |
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Epsylon
Artist
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
41
Posted : Nov 23, 2004 17:48
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I think darclon is quite clear about what he's after.
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| i want more transparency, more punch and more clarity in my tracks. i want to get a "big" step closer to the "professional" sounding music! |
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@ZilDoggo
There's a difference between a rolley and a trolley.
Some ppl can see it , some not. :-)
Now if someone ever gives you the chance to go and mix your work on a Digi HD system, you shouldn't take it. You should stick to your soundblaster cards, because according to what you say here, there's absolutely no need for it.
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| i'm sure that if i do a A-B test with you between 44.1 and 96khz produced psy you could not tell which is which., |
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yeah right, that's why I'm recording @ 96Khz and mastering @ 192KHz and my trusty DSPFactory is up here for a sale ;)
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| also, most music will be mastered to around 11khz or so (so that's only a quarter of the samplingrate), so that leaves a bit of oversampling of the signal.,
if you dont belive me just use a spectrograph and see how much energy above 10khz there is in a typical psy production,,. |
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With all the respect, where did you get that from ?
You are talking about two different things here. One is sampling frequency and the later is audio frequency.
If you don't know the difference between the two I suggest you go for Kitnam's advice, or better still, take up an engineering course (this is simply a genuine advice and i'm not trying to sound patronising, to no extend).
According to the above we should never abandon the Amiga platform then, and we should all keep sequencing on Bars&Pipes and still use Akai 950s with 14bit output, using only 8bit samples.
That would save us some serious money too.
The last quote is far from being right, terribly misleading and I won't go into that due to the excessive typing that requires.
A fact is a fact ... a rumour is a rumour ... and if you can see the truth in this, then there's no debate.
I suggest you do a google search :-)
So... lets sum it up , shall we ?
- You can go and buy a Lamborgini Diablo if you 've got the money. But it will not be much of a use if you don't know how to drive.
- You can read all the libraries of the World and try and learn the principles and tricks of driving. But still you need to get behind that steering wheel before you've been given out any licence to take your car in the streets.
- Talking cars, some like driving a mini, some ,like me, will go for the Lamborgini.
It 's common sense which of the two causes more attention when it drives near crowds ;)(and which has the fattest sound coming out its engine)
hmmm ... did you miss that one ?
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| ps: always use your ears and don't buy something, just because someone else has it , unless your ears tell you so. |
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It's all in the ears . Learn the concepts not the software !
2p+2p=4p
c. k.
- www.djchristos.com
- www.illuminaughty.eu |
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Epsylon
Artist
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
41
Posted : Nov 23, 2004 18:26
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