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Need a bit help concerning keys of songs...
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Jul 15, 2009 18:02:47
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Hi,
I've allways focused on making music and never cared a lot about music theory... now I read that thread in the DJsection about DJs looking for keys of songs and I decided to mention the keys in my future releases.
I'll release an free album in a couple of days and I'm not entirely sure which keys I used in some of the songs... damm... I don't know my own keys.. simply because I don't care.. you know I just play the piano so that it sound as I want it...
Most songs I figured out, but here it is...
A melody uses the notes: A A# F E Would be Aminor if there weren't A#.
Then another one G C F A# but then a G# is added. Would be Gminor if there weren't G#
And another one I'm not sure with: E D# C H which would be Eminor if there just wasn't that "D#".
So it's always the same, basically, but what should I write as "key" for those three examples?
Thank you
  Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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psylevation
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
841
Posted : Jul 15, 2009 19:26
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I have a basic understanding as well but I'll give it a try.
The first one I think might be F major.
The second one I think is C Melodic Minor (Decending)
The third one has an "H" so I'm not sure 
but E D# & C could be E Harmonic Minor
Honestly I just did a little research and figured those out. The notes are in those scales so I figure those are what they are...but someone else feel free to chime in if I'm wrong.
Also check this out if you want to learn how to make songs in specific scales ahead of time.
http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/piano/
~Airyck~
~Unoccupied Mind ~
Psyowa! |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
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3642
Posted : Jul 15, 2009 19:46
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shellbound
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
601
Posted : Jul 15, 2009 20:20
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Quote:
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On 2009-07-15 18:02:47, subconsciousmind wrote:
And another one I'm not sure with: E D# C B which would be Eminor if there just wasn't that "D#".
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better? 
i don't think you need to go so deep into this. i mean, just because a song is in A minor, that doesn't say anything about voicings of the chords or the modes of the melody (phrygian, lydian, etc) or anything else. you can't indicate these things with just the key.
i bet in all your songs the bassline will dictate the key. and then just figure out if it's minor or major by looking at the 3rd. that should be enough. for example, your first melody could very well be using an A Phrygian or Locrian mode (because of the flatted 2nd). but that's not something you indicate with the key. both of these modes are minor, so you should simply put "Am" for it.
or just don't put anything. let the djs do their own work.
https://soundcloud.com/dead-end-dance
https://soundcloud.com/shellbound |
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Medea
Aedem/Medea
Started Topics :
127
Posts :
1132
Posted : Jul 15, 2009 20:45
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Jul 15, 2009 20:45
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 should I say "B" then? I think there is a difference between parts of earth with that B and H...  I think in german you say H for B.. and b only if its in certain scale or so... Don't know but "H" does exist in my language
As for the scales... thats a great site you linked me there.
psylevation I don't think your keys are correct though, actually they are scales. I should have mentioned that the first note I wrote always also is the route key where the melody starts and sometimes also ends and where the bass is most of the time. Also from listening the first one can't impossibly be major.. it's creating a very dark atmosphere here
Thank you septa, you nailed it. You really seem to have deep understanding of this!
With that website found the first scale is "A Phrygian" or some exotic scale. (By the way the song then develops into something with A B C D# Which would according to that site be "A octatonic W-H" and ends in A melodic minor descending... hell I'm glad I usually don't think about that )
But as septa sais that will be Am
the second one would be "G Phrygian" as well then..
so: Gm
And the last scale is "E harmonic minor" so also Em for the key...
Septa, how do you know that phrygian is minor?
Now I'll know what to write But with those little odd scales the DJs (if they even play one of my songs) will be a bit surprised since those flats are really dominating and give the songs often that "off" touch.. which the harmonic minor doesn't have
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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psylevation
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
841
Posted : Jul 15, 2009 20:59
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I was unsure of which key was your root note...so I just took some shots at it.
Glad you figured it out, and I'm glad that website helped.
~Airyck~
~Unoccupied Mind ~
Psyowa! |
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shellbound
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
601
Posted : Jul 15, 2009 21:23
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Quote:
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On 2009-07-15 20:45, subconsciousmind wrote:
Septa, how do you know that phrygian is minor?
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whether something is minor or major is determined exclusively by the 3rd. if you look at this table taken from Ravenspiral guide, you will see that in Dorian, Phrygian, Aeolian, and Locrian, the 3rd is flattened (b=flat, #=sharp) relative to what the note is in the Major scale of that key.
Ionian C D E F G A B C no alterations
Dorian D E F G A B C D b3, b7
Phrygian E F G A B C D E b2, b3, b6, b7
Lydian F G A B C D E F #4
Mixolydian G A B C D E F G b7
Aeolian A B C D E F G A b3, b6, b7
Locrian B C D E F G A B b2, b3, b5, b6, b7
(i hope the formatting doesn't get fucked up).
you can of course simply hear the difference by playing the modes. all 4 of those will sound much darker than the other ones. but it's all explained by the 3rd.
https://soundcloud.com/dead-end-dance
https://soundcloud.com/shellbound |
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Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
1772
Posted : Jul 16, 2009 05:55
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Agree with septa..all a DJ will be interested in is the key.
But for the scales, a lot of these are from bebop improv scales..you getting jazzy? 
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A melody uses the notes: A A# F E Would be Aminor if there weren't A#.
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A Harmonic Major, Ionian b5, Bebop Dominant/Major, or Persian.
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Then another one G C F A# but then a G# is added. Would be Gminor if there weren't G#
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G Melodic Minor or Bebop Dorian/Dominant/Major.
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And another one I'm not sure with: E D# C H which would be Eminor if there just wasn't that "D#".
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Without the 'H'  , it could be E Enigmatic, Persian, 8 Tone Spanish, or Pelog.
Could also be Eb Harmonic Minor, Bebop Dorian/Locrian Natural II, or Hungarian Minor if Eb (D#) is your root rather than the E.
You believe in the users?
Yeah, sure. If I don't have a user, then who wrote me? |
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piko_bianko
Oxya
Started Topics :
57
Posts :
974
Posted : Jul 16, 2009 07:22
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bassline is your answer.
give me a bassline in any note, eg C, and i'll use every note on it with a leadsynth. your key will be C.
extreme |
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sp0ok
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
114
Posted : Jul 16, 2009 11:35
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Quote:
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On 2009-07-15 19:26, psylevation wrote:
I have a basic understanding as well but I'll give it a try.
The first one I think might be F major.
The second one I think is C Melodic Minor (Decending)
The third one has an "H" so I'm not sure
but E D# & C could be E Harmonic Minor
Honestly I just did a little research and figured those out. The notes are in those scales so I figure those are what they are...but someone else feel free to chime in if I'm wrong.
Also check this out if you want to learn how to make songs in specific scales ahead of time.
http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/piano/
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Lots to learn from this link especially if you are not a very music theory oriented person like me.
Thanks 
"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth."
Neo: "What truth?"
Spoon Boy: "There is no spoon." |
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-=Mandari=-
Mandari
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
655
Posted : Jul 16, 2009 12:04
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Quote:
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On 2009-07-16 07:22, piko_bianko wrote:
bassline is your answer.
give me a bassline in any note, eg C, and i'll use every note on it with a leadsynth. your key will be C.
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agreed, only bas and maybe kick important here imo. anyway i choose my root note depending on my bpm =D=D
i do this cause i found for me that it´s not only important to sort all things up matching your "key" (imo, its what i do), than its also important the bpm matches the key too.
anyway its up to u how far things u like to go. but there´s pretty much stuff to learn if u wanna do
btw i´m german too, feel free to contact me any time pm or myspace/msn, cause this is maybe goin too far for my english if we like to go on deeper on that.
what i can say is that imo as dj for over 8 years now it´s only the key imortant and i always only kept my attention on the "key"/root note of the bassline, cause the rest is up to the artist. if the rest is not matching the track, i can not change anything as dj.
now at the other side as i started working on my own sounds, i found how to sort things up that everything matches the rest. and this is only learning about scales, harmonics and all that stuff. the funny thing i found at least for myself was, that it´s really only one bpm perfect matching your rest of the track, and this depends on the root key.
interesting theme..... hope i dont confuse again here with my famous english =D=D
cheers
PS. most people i was speaking about this where not interested. my tracks on mentioned new EP are all root key F at exactly 161,3 bpm. u can calculate the root key to bpm as u just have to get bpm to bps (beats per second), know the frequencies of each note and there u go. i think i found a thread here on isratrance about this, it´s pretty easy. just not better in english 4 me now at least, sorry....=/
FUCK GENRES, LOVE MUSIC!!!!
http://soundcloud.com/mandarimedia
http://banyan-records.com |
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Comatoze
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
35
Posted : Jul 20, 2009 10:19
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What would be awesome would be a program/applet where you type in the notes you've used in your tracks already (where you've been too freeform/inspired to start with a key), and then it'd tell you all the scales that contain those notes, so if you want to add stuff in key you could choose a scale. |
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Giannis
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
199
Posted : Jul 20, 2009 11:38
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There is a trick that you can find out by yourself which sharps (plus or + or # … I don’t know the English speak)
included in a scale
There is the line of sharps It’s the following
F C G D A E B
So lets take an example
You want to find out which sharps included on A major
You say the previous key from A is G, then you go on the line and walk on till G
So A major have F+ C+ G+
2nd example
D major
Previous key is C, so you walk the line till C
D major have F+ C+
3d
F major
Previous key E
So F+ C+ G+ D+ A+ E+
Etc
For the minor scales the only thing you have to do is to find the relative major and do the same thing
the relative major scale of a minor is 3 semitones up
for example the relative of A minor is C major (A - A+, A+ - B, B - C -> 3 semitones)
and for the end at the minor scale you have to add a sharp to the 7th key
so here is an example, lets see about E minor
the relative major is (3 semitones up… E – F, F- F+, F+ G) G major
G major have (previous key is F, so only the first of the line) F
And just because you want the minor scale you add the 7th of E namely D
So E minor includes G+ and D+
With this way the only thing to remember is that line and all the other you can find out by yourself
There is also a same trick about the minus
If you understand what I say and want to learn about it let me know to go on
maybe my music theory knowledge is good but my English sucks
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Jul 20, 2009 22:46
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Hey -=Mandari=-
I remember i had a chart somwere with this info, but im not at my computer now.. do you have one? its kind of interesting...
btw nice tracks you got there.... i like the tempo...its a little crazy but it should be in the night.. of course you can go from lots of tempos i think...
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