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nasty sub resonance in bass?
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NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Nov 5, 2004 22:56
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argh...
no matter what bass sound i use, how much i tweak, compress and EQ i still get this horrid resonance from my sub which seems to blur out the actual tone of the bassline - ive tried sidechain compression, and although it 'tames' the bass it still doesn't remove the unclear tone from the sub... if there has been a topic on this in the recent or distant past i apologise for asking the Q. but my search yielded no results...
any help would be brilliant!
Peace X |
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High Pulse
Darkpsy
Started Topics :
57
Posts :
1187
Posted : Nov 6, 2004 04:09
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try this ... put the bass on the channel VST or HARDWARE ... reked .. or in the case just let the vst on the channel .. channel of the bass .. put a simples phat EQ ... cut the last 2 gain from the last 2 freq ..
then put the power u whant near 160 and 230 .. and until 600 hz .. u try to fix until u get the bether ressonance and balance u whant ..then add it to one bus .. first .. compress .. then put like a EQ 15 bands for ex .. cut the last 3 bands .. and put the bass just at your level .
i dont have nothing to say about it .. i just put the basses just like i whant 
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jon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
441
Posted : Nov 6, 2004 13:23
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what you can do is:
1) turn down the volume so you dont hurt your speakers during the following steps
2) put spike in the eq of the bass of at least 8db, fairly sharp
3) move the freq spike down _slowly_ from 200Hz to 0Hz until you hear an incredibly loud sound. You'll know what I mean when it happens. Itll most likely be living around 100Hz. Now you are happy you remembered step 1).
4) You can make the spike sharper to 'home in' on this bad frequency.
5) convert the spike to the opposite : a notch.
6) fiddle around with the depth of the notch.... you dont want to completely kill that frequency cos it is probably containing the meat of the bass.... but you want to attenuate it a bit.
This is how you get a more dry bass.... of course you may need to compress afterwards, and do some other eqing. But this is how to get rid of that annoying resonance.
Cheers!
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ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
663
Posted : Nov 6, 2004 14:30
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it's also possible that you have a monitoring problem.,
a lot of ported speakers (the ones with a hole in them) tend to blurr the bass., it's basically a cheap trick to make the bass seem louder,.
but because of this the bass seems not to have a specific tone but rather a blurry windy woofy sound,
not sure this is what you're having.,
another thing is room acoustics.,
when you hear your problem try moving around your room and see if the bass changes realy dramatically in level., if this is so then this may be a big part of your problem., then it would be the room resonating and not the speaker! 
and itt couldd also be a general problem with your monitors.,
are you using proper studio monitors or hifi stuff?
greets.,
aka., |
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NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Nov 6, 2004 19:00
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thanks so much, am using proper monitors, but even on Hi-Fi equipment the bass sounded blurry whereas other professional tunes did not...
cheers for the tips so much, i really needed a drier bassline.
I know the acoustics aren't the best in my room however ive tried to improve it with padding etc. not the perfect environment, but it'll do 
Peace X |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Nov 8, 2004 02:27
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maxxbass can make it sometimes... any how try open vb1 (it is the most simple bass.. btw - most bass presets are ok... if not lack subs...) - do u still have too much or unclear basses? if do its more likely to b acoustics or monitor prob.. make sure u dry ur corners and take monitor at least 0.5 meter from the wall...
 www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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mono mono
Onnomon
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
314
Posted : Nov 8, 2004 21:27
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You mentioned "drier bass" suggesting you've done some post signal processing on your source. What is your source? What post processing? It's tending to suggest that it's something in your bass line/patch programming.
Using compression will blur your bass lines because it evens out the volume. I avoid compression on kicks and bass, in general. because i'm using programmable synths I can typically tweak the sound to be delivered at the proper volume/freq content/modulation dynamic (the art of bass patch). However regarding signal processing, you might place the kick and bass on a seperate bus, then use a limiter to keep them under control, but don't set the limiter to low threshold (just keep it set at 0 Db), otherwise you're basically comrpessing the hell out of it. But, there are more fundamental reasons why this can be avoided all-together:
Other hints:
1) If the kick and bass notes are occurring at the same time, decrease the volume (velocity) of the bass note, or, a bit more work, EQ out some of the subsonics on either the kick or bass, for those notes only. Kick and Bass should both have good sub content, that's why psytrance drives PA like locomotives.
2) Varying the length of the bass also varies the volume. You might have a straight 16th note pattern, even using the same notes, but by changing the duration of each of the notes really affects the emphasis of the bass line. A short 32nd length note will peep less energy than a 16th duration. Short impulses of bass will still ring a little longer than you program into your sequencer, that speaker can't just "stop on a dime", plus a little room effect too.
3) Place a high-pass across either the master outs or the kick/bass bus, roll-off either -12 or -18 db, anywhere from 35 to 40 Hz. Those soft-synths are mathematical number generators and are easily capable of mud-producing super-subs (below 35 Hz).
The advice from earlier posts is important too, try to notch out some mud by sweeping with parametric. I also typically get rid of any clickiness (especially when using VB-1, may it rest in peace), in the bass patch, with some low-pass filtering ranging anywhere from 2k up.
More tweaky ways to get more subs out of your patch is to use EQ/distortion in plugs-in like Quad Frohmage, or quadrafuzz. You should still use a high-pass around 37 though.
Other topics: Bass patch creation, note placement for bass lines.
Don't forget, the space between the notes is as important as the notes.
much luck,
dean
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Nov 8, 2004 21:43
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Nice post Dean, lotta good tips.
thanks!
-Alex |
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Nov 9, 2004 11:51
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Quote:
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On 2004-11-08 21:27, mono mono wrote:
You mentioned "drier bass" suggesting you've done some post signal processing on your source. What is your source? What post processing? It's tending to suggest that it's something in your bass line/patch programming.
Using compression will blur your bass lines because it evens out the volume. I avoid compression on kicks and bass, in general. because i'm using programmable synths I can typically tweak the sound to be delivered at the proper volume/freq content/modulation dynamic (the art of bass patch). However regarding signal processing, you might place the kick and bass on a seperate bus, then use a limiter to keep them under control, but don't set the limiter to low threshold (just keep it set at 0 Db), otherwise you're basically comrpessing the hell out of it. But, there are more fundamental reasons why this can be avoided all-together:
Other hints:
1) If the kick and bass notes are occurring at the same time, decrease the volume (velocity) of the bass note, or, a bit more work, EQ out some of the subsonics on either the kick or bass, for those notes only. Kick and Bass should both have good sub content, that's why psytrance drives PA like locomotives.
2) Varying the length of the bass also varies the volume. You might have a straight 16th note pattern, even using the same notes, but by changing the duration of each of the notes really affects the emphasis of the bass line. A short 32nd length note will peep less energy than a 16th duration. Short impulses of bass will still ring a little longer than you program into your sequencer, that speaker can't just "stop on a dime", plus a little room effect too.
3) Place a high-pass across either the master outs or the kick/bass bus, roll-off either -12 or -18 db, anywhere from 35 to 40 Hz. Those soft-synths are mathematical number generators and are easily capable of mud-producing super-subs (below 35 Hz).
The advice from earlier posts is important too, try to notch out some mud by sweeping with parametric. I also typically get rid of any clickiness (especially when using VB-1, may it rest in peace), in the bass patch, with some low-pass filtering ranging anywhere from 2k up.
More tweaky ways to get more subs out of your patch is to use EQ/distortion in plugs-in like Quad Frohmage, or quadrafuzz. You should still use a high-pass around 37 though.
Other topics: Bass patch creation, note placement for bass lines.
Don't forget, the space between the notes is as important as the notes.
much luck,
dean
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VERY VERY FUCKIN GOOOD 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTPJuMSwzUQ |
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ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
663
Posted : Nov 9, 2004 14:17
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actually, for kicks, when i make my own kicks i use quite a lot of limiting to get a punchier sound.,
but that's more like a sculpting process and not in the mix., but heavy compression on single notes can do wonders to wobbly kicks and bass sounds.,
once you have that you can of course do all the other stuff you ppl are saying.,
greets.
aka., |
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mono mono
Onnomon
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
314
Posted : Nov 9, 2004 22:39
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Quote:
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On 2004-11-09 14:17, ZilDoggo wrote:
actually, for kicks, when i make my own kicks i use quite a lot of limiting to get a punchier sound.,
but that's more like a sculpting process and not in the mix., but heavy compression on single notes can do wonders to wobbly kicks and bass sounds.,
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Yes, you apply the tools to ultimately get the sound that moves you. Most kicks waveforms have a tapering like a fish's skeleton, without the tail fin (unless...) A limiter should reduce the taper of waveform, depending on the amount of input gain. That is- make it sustain longer in the sub-sonic portion. (remember: most psy-kicks have a high-frequency front-end sweeping downward towards the low-end tail).
A lot of kicks I use (scrounged and scrapped together) have sustaining low-end that lasts way too long, unless you're doing a techno track with no bass line (i.e. using the kick as a bass). This is where the Battery envelope is utilized. Battery is a great tool. Battery 2 looks even better.
The one thing i've noticed though is that every producer has their own way of doing things; there are many paths to aural nirvana.
If you want to render your bassline to a wave loop, then you can go in and just adjust envelopes/levels destructively. It's the ultimate tweak and it's more work. Certainly render your kick/bass part alone then look at it in a wave editor and notice how the waves interact, and sum, and sound. It's instructive at least.
-dean
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NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Nov 9, 2004 23:58
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wow...
thanks so much... my bass has definitely improved, have notched out the muddier sounds now, and have been tweaking the sounds far more (the high-pass helps so much) i already seem to have a much 'crisper sound'...
Peace X! |
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