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my Quest for Psychadelic Souds
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Dec 5, 2009 17:20:03
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I got sent an email today by a friend that was really interesting, so much so that I'm posting it! Obviously! Enjoy 
So, this is going to be long...if you don't want to read lengthy diatribes and humble requests for knowledge go no further
Hi! I absolutely love psychadelic electronic dance music. I left that purposefully wide-ranging (so many sub genre names its ridiculous)
because I was introduced to it at the age of 18 (shpongle! the mystery begins...) and I'm 24 now. I have been going to festivals and psy-trance events (gaian mind, orb festival ) for ~5 years and in those years I have picked up a lot of great experiences and friends which I am very grateful for. I consider the music and the community to be essential to my artistic creative ability and I strive to better myself and the collective whole as much as is within my power to do so...I owe a great deal to this music and all of you.
I am just beginning to realize how much really great music is out there...I wish I had been introduced to it earlier, but sadly I missed out on the early to late 90s in that I wasn't on the scene when all the shit that I love so much now was released. For instance....the Eclipse compilation, Nakano Ghost by Total Eclipse and Purple Pygmies by Walter Ego are just so incredibly pyschadelic. But what exactly makes a track 'psychadelic'? Do you just insert a KbbbKbbb rolling bassline, some percussion and some random samples from your favorite psychadelic hero/tv show/movie and voila its pschadelic?
I don't think so. I really like a lot of the stuff that's being released recently and played at festivals and I'll dance my ass off to it
but it feels like a lot of the stuff that *to me* is psychadelic is missing or just different. The scene continues to change and a million subgenres have sprung up(read: there is a lot of really horrible cheesy full-on that sucks). I have no prior musical experience or knowledge so if this description isn't very technical forgive me.
To me, I would wager a guess that the 'psychadelic' sounds are 'unnatural' in that you artifically create or alter a sound so that it is impossible to come about otherwise (like, in nature)...super wacky, tripped out, strange...all the potential that comes out of having so many parameters to fiddle with on synths and it's really interesting to see and hear first hand what a high pass filter is or the theory behind it, or why there are different wave forms used and how they resonate or combine or whatever. I would make the effort to elaborate more on the different theories if I were more eloquent and versed in them.
I don't even know what I would use for words to describe the sounds I hear on those tracks, like little pops or 'ecks' or whatever...they're really sweet.
Only recently have I had an active interest in DJing and producing and in the last couple of months I've read a whole lot, downloaded more
than I need and learned a shitload. I finally know what 4/4 timing and a rolling bassline are yay! and even how to create a decent version myself with the gracious assistance of 98+ pages of pure awesome in the mother of all bassline topics (thanks quantec and annanuki in particular, you guys are fucking awesome...). I can beat match songs and not make them train wreck, and thats pretty fun too. I have absolutely no problem spending a shitload of time praticing and learning, but on the other hand I know what I want (to create intensely psychadelic music that uplifts me, inspires me, and makes me dance like crazy) and I would like to get there as quickly as possible.
I have limited means in the ways of money but I have grown accustomed to not feeling guilty at all about 'stealing' software or music. If I hear a track I like, I'll do my best to get everything that artist ever made. If I'm trying to create music similar to an artist and I read that they use <insert synth VSTi here> then if I can find it then I'll get it if at all possible. I have a gigantic library of VSTi (ablino, cronox, zeta, sylenth, trilogy, alien303, bazzism, and like 10 more...) and some midi/wave sample packs as well as ~30 gigs of music to convert to wave and throw in Ableton to dissect. If you feel the need to judge that as being morally or ethically wrong, so be it but I try to give back when I can to the artists I really respect and admire
Anyways, I am really loving making music (I use ableton live 8 and am watching Tom Cosm's Digital Audio Production guides) and I know how to automate all sorts of parameters, have a bassline ok add percussion layer the bassline with another vsti synth so it sounds different, flick through a crapload of vst presets....take away the kick/percussion for a bit then give it back...send a couple channels to audio cut it up throw it in a sample, throw an equalizer on a bass synth and notch it instead of boosting it in certain areas.. I am happy with my progress
considering how ignorant I was of musical theory for so many years and its really fun! It is kind of a double edged sword however...what little knowledge of music I have attained has made me more aware of structure. I already stared at what the DJ was doing rapt in fascination but now I had a tiny bit of knowledge as to what he was doing. Then my taste became a bit more refined in that I could detecterrors in their mixing or matching..oh well
anyways, that entire lengthy rant was a precursor to an open series of rambling question to anyone who has read all of, a portion of, or none of the entirety of stuff I said and am about to say. I don't expect anyone to actually respond to all of or any of these but if you did, and your answer were to lead me in the right direction or at least an interesting one then I would be very grateful
Those trippy sounds...what's up with that? Blips Bloops Bleeps Ecks or however you attempt to describe them, they're really great and I love them (another example...free return by Alienated of distance to goa 5) Anyone want to share techniques or theories as to how to create such unnatural sounds? I read something that someone posted somewhere in relation to psytrance and he said something like 'big things make big noises, small things make small noises...but what if something small makes a big noise, or vice versa?' That sounds cool and I am sure there are tons of other more intelligent/humorous ways to explain what a trippy sound is like but actual examples from a technical POV would be amazing.
Sidechaining - I hear a lot about this but I'm fairly certain my knowledge is inadequate. It seems like one of the popular methods is to 'sidechain' something to your kick so that it feels more pumping?
As I said before I am watching Tom Cosm's guides for digital production and it was more than worth the money. is there good literature available for musical theory/knowledge specifically relating to producing electronic dance music that's worth it? I don't mind reading theory and attempting to grasp some of it as long as it will be helpful obviously.
As regards to tripping and the music...I know that its obviously made to be enjoyed in a psychadelic atmosphere but is it *created* in one?
For instance, with my visual art my methodology is to practice a lot of technical aspects while sober and build up muscle memory so that when I trip I can flow and integrate all of the more technical things I've been working on into my dancing. I have come across concepts that seemed to originate out of the psychadelic ether so to speak...strange things rise out of the mind that I might never have come across while not under the influence of LSD but I rarely do most of the 'work' in learning new things/techniques while under the influence.
Is this different for production of psychadelic music? I frequent the Twisted forums and caught a post by Posford saying that when they gave the new shpongle album the 'acid test' it was like listening to it with a new brain and I totally get that...but does that mean that throughout the physical building of the tracks they were sober?
I can imagine a couple scenarios:
1) Trip all the time - while listening to music, while creating the music, performing the music completely 'off your tits' (I love british
expressions...thanks Ott) the whole time
2) Trip some of the time - listening to music while tripping and getting inspired, writing the music sober, performing whilst tripping
3) trip less of the time - listenign to music while tripping and getting inspired, writing the music sober, performing sober
4) trip never
There are more paramters than that and countless possible combinations. Unfortunately I've been at a party recently when the DJ was too fucked up and couldn't do his job properly and the atmosphere was impaired, but I've also seen sets performed by people who I know are under the influence of a lot of acid and they're fucking brilliant. I'm sure there is some happy balance and I'd love to hear about what other people think about that.
when I see a collaboration between two psy trance artists on a track did they just get together do a bunch of acid and try to create something? Does it work that way?
I might add more questions at some point, but I feel this is a pretty good start. Thanks in advance for any responses...going back to pouring more hours into endless fun tweaking of basslines |
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
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1490
Posted : Dec 5, 2009 18:39
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2 ur friend:
Hey dude! you are so funny!
You remind me of me 3 years ago!
First of all i really enjoyed reading this... i can tell you, you are in the right track and you seem to be a very positive and enthusiastic person you'll get there in no time.
Perhaps you still have a lot of concepts mixed up and you believe you understand stuff in a way (and you do) but you will begin to see the big picture with time... i ain't no pro but as i said i had a similar vision a couple years ago.
Ok so now to the answers:
"trippy sounds" ??? you mean those bloink, pong, zang, swish, clank? hehe all of those bits of audio passed through fx chains are nothing but synth shots, audio bursts, chopped samples... try to get any synth with small envelopes to produce short burst of sounds... play with LFOs and all kind of quick modulations to filters and pitch so that gives your sounds shape and character... a couple of very nice plugins to achieve various sounds in a quick way are: uhe microtonic and waldord's attack. They are oriented to percussive sounds and have a very easy to understand interface that can get you creating lots of original new sounds for your track... but in ableton you need nothing but simpler or a drum rack to throw in whatever sound you like... if you know all of what you said about ableton you know how it can be done. Also Shpongle does a lot of stuff with pitchshifting vocals and autotuning... don't know exactly what those psychedelic sounds are to you maybe an example could help.
Now on sidechaining... sidechaining is a form of compression, there are thousands of texts and videos around the net that explain it. It is just a a compressor works when linked to another signal (e. the kick) to compress this elements while the kick is playing so they "duck" the kick creating a pumpy feeling (when tweaked right). It is a nice tool which you can easily master in ableton just go around the net searching for sidechain information.
Ok now fo theory you can check on:
http://www.worldofbryan.com/rsg2mt.pdf
http://emusictips.com/
http://www.audiotuts.com
http://www.soundonsound.com/
Those come to my mind.
About the tripping... i don't think one can produce / mix anything worthy while high on acid... also i wouldn't waste a whole trip trapped in the studio.
This is very personal but i keep drugs for special times (xept for daily weed) and although my music and life are always influenced by psychedelia sequencers like logical -sober- thinking.
Acid won't create music for you man... it inspires, it does wonders to your head but music production is hard work and knowledge, none of which come just by taking drugs.
I see you are a little confused about the whole psychedelic part... i see this as comparable to a movie... you are acting like if you saw a movie and thought everything in the screen was real.
Psytrance tracks might contain drug related samples, and they are designed to take your mind / body and take them to spin but this is just happening in a druggy brain... good music is good music even without drugs... and my point is... you might be listening to a lot of "pyshcedelic sounds and ambiences" but when you learn more you will just understand all those sounds as synths / fx tools working together to create art and art is always enjoyable with drugs.
Once i tried to produce while on acid... but spent a lot of time just listening "how chord melted one into the other because it was beautiful"... could't really make anything worthy guess you'd have to b related to Jimi Hendrix XD
Cheers man and keep on the goo vibes |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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162
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8087
Posted : Dec 5, 2009 20:44
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you talk about psychedelic music,its not using only trippy sounds,fx that define psychedlic music to me,it has a vibe born years ago (i think in the 70) making real psychedlic music that catch that vibe is a art that a few like koxbox archieved in psytrance ,just my view... |
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Uedi
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
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288
Posted : Dec 5, 2009 22:17
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Put a vocal on loop, add delay, filter and autopan... that's psychedelic!! 
There's no rules!
You should do the psychedelia the way you feel it!
Before, this kind of music was directly related to drug experiences.
Some producers tried to recreate exactly the sounds they heard when they were under the influence of psychoactive substances.
That's the magic of the trip, translated to the real world. That "thing"!
That's why when you ear it, you know it's there! 
Now it doesn't happen so much.
Today there's a lot of tech trance, very bumping but not so trippy! Made young talented tech-kids...
who do drugs too
you don't need drugs to do psychedelic sounds.
You just need to get in the vibe. 
Start by listening to one of your favourite tracks, open your daw, add a synth and start playing at the same time!
This is just my opinion... |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 5, 2009 22:26
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Thanks so much for the replies folks, every little bit of knowledge I can get or different perspective gained is one step closer to good music!
I was kind of being humorous when I was talking about the whole drug thing and producing and I listen to psy-trance constantly regardless of my mental state...its still awesome. If I have a really good live set or just an album I really enjoy (coming up on 50+ listens to the new shpongle album....) it brings tears to my eyes or inspiration to my dance regardless if im sober or not (though the "not" certainly does help hehe)
I try to treat the drugs with the respect they are due; they are powerful entheogenic sacrament used as a catalyst towards higher functioning and are not to be abused.
I'm off to the outside...its snowing! yay for snowing + fire spinning
cheers
ps thanks so much for those theory links, I can't wait to figure out all these fun effects and chains...you guys are fucking awesome. |
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Uedi
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
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288
Posted : Dec 5, 2009 22:43
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you have a feeling that drives you. the music passion...
Keep that in mind... and heart!! when you producing/dancing and it will translate to your music or performance.
Search for 'simon posford interview studio' on youtube!
Check out part two! |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Dec 5, 2009 22:46
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yeah I've seen that, I have that Twisted DVD very inspiring stuff... |
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Fuzulu
Fuzulu
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58
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1096
Posted : Dec 6, 2009 00:31
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great replies from Uedi and Aciduss ... interesting thread i enjoyed reading it |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Dec 6, 2009 02:22
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Is there any way for me to change the title of the thread...how the hell did I manage to miss the N in sounds. Sounds like a quest for Psychadelic soap suds. oh well.
maybe the pyschadelic-ness has something to do with the range of hearing available and the layering options within that range?? I mean, we have a certain spectrum that we can hear...this is going to be ultra simplistic compared to the reality of whats actually happening, but kick drums and bass are on the low end of the frequency band and then you go up the scale and end at super high pitched screetchy shit but there is an unlimited amount of variety in terms...for example say you divide the hearable spectrum into 10 pieces and you mix 10 different tracks/sounds/layers so that more and more of your concievable spectrum is filled with intricately crafted psychadelic mayhem?
The following is a compilation of noises from Nakano Ghost by Total Eclipse, Purple Pygmies by Walter Ego (hi there Simon) and Nara Hari by Yudisthira...if anyone can provide any insight as to how things like this are created that'd be pretty sweet 
the noises that I am referring to exist in the past the present and hopefully my future, they are scattered in and among my favorite artists' tracks and they seem to be in the middle of my EQ spectrum...I used Live8's EQ Eight to take out what I could so as to further emphasize which sounds I am referring to. there are countless other examples but I already spent an hour or so cutting up these bits and I want to spend some more time actually tweaking my bassline hehe
heres the mp3:
http://www.filefreak.com/files/90922_d8f5h/those%20weird%20sounds2.mp3
oh also the song Archaic - Soothsayer off the VA - Frogoloy compilation has some crazy sounds at the 2:20 mark, would be interested in those too. |
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Fuzulu
Fuzulu
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1096
Posted : Dec 6, 2009 14:14
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i think most of these sounds are made from tweaking synths and with delay and other fx added ... sounds like pitch and filter modulation and then passed through delay ... try it out with albino, play with the mod matrix ... and tweak some parameters using automation etc |
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sp0ok
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
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114
Posted : Dec 7, 2009 09:22
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"I'm sure many people in this forum feel the same way"
I love your post. I'm 24 and got introduced to Hallucinogen when I was 18 as well. I guess I share the same hunger for creating those twisty sounds. I've been through Posford's studio interview, Cosm's tutorials etc etc... Btw the IM interview posted by somebody in the same forum recently has a lot of insight into production.
Going through magazines(computer music, future music) and trying that stuff out on your DAW also helps a lot.
I guess making the sounds greatly comes in the mixing part of producing (tweaking cutoffs, chopping and mixing sounds, sending to delay channels) etc.
I believe there is no perfect method to do this. This is where the creativity and innovation in psy lies. Practice will eventually make you perfect (or atleast close to it)
 "Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth."
Neo: "What truth?"
Spoon Boy: "There is no spoon." |
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jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
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90
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Posted : Dec 7, 2009 14:55
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A psy drug would have nothing to do with it. Its you as a person, believes,concepts,understanding and drive.
A psy drug Can be extremly dangourse u need to be ready (I wasn't but I came clean when I returned).
u need to be ready for the big big truth of the whole fuking game.
Acid or mushrooms once in a blu moon. these are not to be fuked with.
Never abuse.
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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93
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Posted : Dec 7, 2009 21:08
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@ spook - nice to see someone in a similar position, thanks for the post brought a smile to my face. after watching 9/10 of Tom Cosm's introductions everything is becoming a lot more clear.
One thing I got stuck in that I'm going to rectify from here on out is abuse of VSTi presets....I'm deleting most of my VSTis because the native Operator/Analog synths in ableton are incredibly powerful and don't seem to be 'missing' any feature that Albino/Sylenth/z3ta/Vanguard has...I was trying to cheat and just find cool presets and tweak them but I think I'm going to be better off actually learning how to create sounds from scratch.
I am amazed at how a relatively small amount of knowledge has allowed me greater insight into the music that I like so much
@ jizy - I take my pyschs very seriously and use them for particular purposes - most of the time it is for inspiration, guidance, knowledge..although I would be lying if I said I haven't had a hedonistic trip (or two...or three...)
I have a good relationship with my favorites at the moment. I have noticed that a lot of people have problems dealing with psychadelic scenarios...in that they feel that they are losing control, or something is too weird for them, they spiral out of control. I find it very easy 95% of the time to stop myself from going 'negative' or losing control..just keep telling yourself that you are on a mind altering drug.
I've seen and experienced some very powerful things that would be incredibly unsettling/frightening to some people but for some reason I am able to distance myself from that aspect of it and see it as interesting and this has allowed me to go very deep into the other realms...I feel that the entire universe in all its multiple dimensions and realities is saturated with a deep and unending well of knowledge that we can tap into when in certain states.
That is what I want to ideally draw my inspiration from....on the twisted forums there is an interview between alex grey and simon posford and simon goes over how he and raja start conceiving of a song...they do it visually, starting out with a mental picture of the experience they want to create instead of 'insert kbbb pattern, insert crazy noises, insert pads, insert percussion'
Back to tweaking |
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sp0ok
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
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114
Posted : Dec 9, 2009 11:11
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On 2009-12-07 21:08, willsanquil wrote:
@ spook - nice to see someone in a similar position, thanks for the post brought a smile to my face. after watching 9/10 of Tom Cosm's introductions everything is becoming a lot more clear.
One thing I got stuck in that I'm going to rectify from here on out is abuse of VSTi presets....I'm deleting most of my VSTis because the native Operator/Analog synths in ableton are incredibly powerful and don't seem to be 'missing' any feature that Albino/Sylenth/z3ta/Vanguard has...I was trying to cheat and just find cool presets and tweak them but I think I'm going to be better off actually learning how to create sounds from scratch.
I am amazed at how a relatively small amount of knowledge has allowed me greater insight into the music that I like so much
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Absolutely correct about the dependence on VSTis. Soundforge and Ableton with Analog is more than enough to get many psychedelic sounds (Have you done the IM kick drum tutorial?). Though, I've heard people on this forum rave about hardware like the virus, the Nord. etc. But you needn;t disregard the vsts. coz the mod matrix in sylenth and albino is something quite amazing. DO check out dblue's glitch too. Ableton is yet to come up with a good multi effect plugin.
There are plenty of links to sound synthesis here as well that show you how to create hats,snares etc etc.
can you please link me to that interview between posford and grey? these two guys have completely changed my perception of life.
"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth."
Neo: "What truth?"
Spoon Boy: "There is no spoon." |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
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2822
Posted : Dec 9, 2009 11:30
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http://www.twistedmusic.com/forums/viewthread/3694/
enjoy! do you have any particularly good links to synthesis guides or theory that's specific to psy? I've read the leads/basslines threads already but I'm still need more theory/step-by-step stuff to get a hang of synthesis (particularly interested in FM synth tutorials) |
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