Midnight Sun
ProtoDrive
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Posted : Jan 31, 2014 20:06:54
Hello!
Well I produce PsyTrance from over 3 years now and I always stayed on a range between 130 and 150 BPM.
This year I started a new proyect which is also trance but at 182 BPM.
The thing is that in the whole creation of the track I noticed I had somehow to "thin" all the sounds, maybe because at that speed there's not much space to fatten them.. so Kick and Bass also went trough that issue and I'm not rally sure if the result is OK.
Here´s what I´ve got:
Please don't missunderstood this post. It's not for the Workshop section, I already finished this track (which you can download). The point is discussing that fat/thinness difference between BPM´s.. hopefully I'm mistaked and there's a special trick as I miss that fatness..
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 31, 2014 21:18
I think you've got a very well balanced mix going there, specially considering the frenetic speed you're going for.
I think you'll be able to regain that fatness if you give more space to the elements, mostly leads...
Wouldn't mind to feel the presence of the bass a tiny bit more, but that's about it.
So it's really more down to the arrangement I think, you don't seem to have any technical problems. And it's true that you can't have as fat a snare, for example, as you would in more slow paced bpm, for sure. I'd say, give that bass a tad more presence (I'd really like to ear that click a bit more, cutting through the mix that is, you know the biz for sure), and if you miss those fat leads and stuff, less crowded mix is a must, if you look at high tech stuff that goes as fast, like oxidaksi and stuff like that, there's not much going at the same time.
that's about it. keep it up!
Midnight Sun
ProtoDrive
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Posted : Feb 1, 2014 06:34
Yes, less crowded areas will give more room for lead sounds for sure but my main issue here (forgot to specify) it's about Kick and Bass.
Lets say in other words that in my experiencie, as you go faster BPM´s you'll need to take out more SUB frequencies. I think of this as the time needed for the Woofer to vibrate.
Slow music: cutting @30hz. Fast music: cutting @50+ hz
So would it be relative the BPM's to the quantity of SUB Kick and Bass can have?
ProtoDrive https://soundcloud.com/protodrive
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 1, 2014 23:25
It's true that lower frequencies take more time to develop, but not nearly that much. I mean, 30Hz is still 30 cycles within a second and even 1/32th at 182bpm is 0.041 seconds, almost half a second.
So I think people tend to cut more, yes, but based on what sounds best rather then it being an absolute necessity. Altough it's true that if you free your speakers from the burgon of having to produce this very low rumble, you get more clarity and woofer cones refresh with more ease, which ultimately translates into more clarity, througout the whole spectrum, actually, not just the low end. But that's also valid for 135bpm, or 90. And I think 50Hz is to much, if you're talking about the group, but probably depends if it's a steep filter or not and on the sounds of course, but 30-40ish is usually where I cut bass, no matter how fast or slow, kicks around 50 sometimes yeah.
What I think this is about is like... If you were to slow down some tune you'd lower it's pitch, and get a more bassier tone, and if you were to speed it up... Ok, so I think to a certain extent, we sort of expect that in general, as it sounds more pleasant and natural. No wonder things happening super fast are high frequencies, right? Our ears and perception sort of expect that, that's a natural connection. Think that's it imo.
Fungophago
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81
Posted : Feb 2, 2014 01:04
my explanation would be the following.
at 182 bpm a kick of an 8th would be 165 ms long.
at 135 bpm a kick of an 8th would be 222 ms long.
resulting in 182 min frequency of 6,07 hz and 135 min frequency 4,50 hz. a tone consists of n-times the frequency or 3/2*n*times the min frequency (if i remember correctly, classic physics has been a while...). so if you go for a shorter puls(=higher bpm) simply the amount of possible frequencies this plus can consist of is reduced, and thus the energy of the puls is also reduced.
theres a way to derive this more clearly from fourier transformation but thats not possible to display here without latex...
but if you start cutting at a higher freq it obviously that...
-=Mandari=-
Mandari
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655
Posted : Feb 2, 2014 11:38
agree its well balanced, work dude. like that approach, its seriously off the grid, cudos!!
according to your issue, listening to your track i clearly feel room for the lows. but i wouldnt disturb anything there, cause it sounds just great.
try giving the kick some slight dip with wide q somewhere infront of the harmonics of your bass, i.e. anywhere between 60-90hz, you know how to q that, so i dont need to go deeper ^^ and i mean a really slight dip, it does not need much of anything.
its the only thing i miss and the reason why you think it lacks low content in this case, at least this is my humble opinion. feel free to slap me here if im wrong to me it doesnt.
the content just does not reach the highs as expected. anyways, many do their mix alike and sure it sounds somehow bigger if you leave your dynamic range like that. final result depending on the engineer, so if you master that yourself, just some punch there and a slight raise in gain on your bus (if you did route there) should clearify things. im pretty sure about that. maybe try to raise the bus first before giving the kick more punch. but guess you tried that....
another trick might be adding ->something<- like the stillwell eq and apply that to the bus and boost both slightly. anyways im not sure if the stillwell is the solution, cause the range is pretty fixed. but it helped me lots of times used on a bus, giving the last dip i needed, glueing things together when cut accordingly use with caution!
Midnight Sun
ProtoDrive
Started Topics :
91
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Posted : Feb 4, 2014 03:58
Great explanation we've got here! So that clarifies all to me, makes lots of sense!
Thank you both for the props and info! Really appreciated, now I can apply this knowledge to newer tracks and see if I get the expected result!..
ProtoDrive https://soundcloud.com/protodrive
work dude. like that approach, its seriously off the grid, cudos!!
to me it doesnt.
use with caution!