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Mono uh-oh
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 25, 2007 18:22
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After crawling inch by inch to the top of Mount Tomos (a 3ft high mound of earth) to plant a flag in great music production. I've just checked my mix in mono. MEH!
I've got a track which I'm leaping about the room to, loving it, it's all gravy. Collapse to mono and half the effects are missing.
Clearly a phase issue, but I've never come so close to perfection (in my ears) and then had it all fubared by a mono button.
Please help make my mix mono compatible 
Tips, tricks.. no idea at this stage. |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 25, 2007 18:23
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Follow up question by myself.
If I fix things so it works in mono, will it sound better in stereo? |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 25, 2007 19:29
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To be honest i dont have a clue.
But are you making music for mono systems or for stereo?
i think if you would make music for radio you have to make some compromises but if you make pounding psytrance, why bother to make it mono compatible?
i say make a mono version and a stereo version, than you can ponder what sounds best..
Though i find this quite interesting. Keep us updated...
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Get-a-fix
Getafix
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Posted : May 25, 2007 19:45
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^^
Its important to make sure your mix sounds good in mono as most PA's in clubs are mono..
Can you describe what exactly happens to your mix in mono tomos? Are you using a lot of panning and stereo effects in your tracks?
As for your second question, yup if you manage to make it sound good in mono then it will sound good in stereo too..
 http://www.soundcloud.com/getafixmusic |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 25, 2007 19:51
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if half the effects are missing something is wrong ,do you use stereo imager? or tracks panned hard right and left with some delay? listen some tracks you like in mono and see how they sound, and do the same for your track.the more you spread the stereo the more the sound disapear in the center (mono) |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 25, 2007 20:04
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hmm...
i guess this is a important part of mixing..
like you say PoM that the more far out the sounds are panned the less they will be heard in the center.
and then we have panning laws
http://www.harmony-central.com/articles/tips/panning_laws/
frustrating to not know all about this issue..
is there a mono button in SX 3? or is there some plug in? i dont think my little Ub802 mixer has a monobutton..
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AvS
Started Topics :
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464
Posted : May 25, 2007 20:29
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Sounds strange that lots of your fx are missing in mono. You must be doing something wrong.
What i do is the moment that i put an fx that i suspect could cause phase issues i switch to mono and test it.
If it sounds bad/phasey/thin in mono i play with the fx till it sound ok in mono and swith back to stereo to hear if it also sound right.
Some fx should be avoided; like putting a very short delay on only one side of a mono sound, to make id sounds wider. Phase inversion (obviosly).
I also find that in most cases its pretty easy to hear in stereo if there are phase issues. My head feels like its being ripped apart if there are serious phase problems and alot of times i feel like putting my head sideways for some reason. |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 25, 2007 20:43
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Thanks guys.
A few things get quieter, I'm not sure what to do there, maybe try flipping some phases?
Specifically there is a large crazy pad, that I designed on my Virus, straight out, little Eq, no insert effects and it completely vanishes in mono, its crazy. It's the main lead at one point and in mono its just not there. I've heard of hi-hats going but this is astounding.
Okay so the patch itself has effects built in, but I would have thought someone would have realised that by using virus chorus your sound dissapears.
I'll try and grab a sample and show you what happens.
You think this could be solved by tweaking chorus and phase, or do those effects lend themselves to problems in mono situatiuons?
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 25, 2007 20:46
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Quote:
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I also find that in most cases its pretty easy to hear in stereo if there are phase issues. My head feels like its being ripped apart if there are serious phase problems and alot of times i feel like putting my head sideways for some reason.
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Me too? It's weird. I walked into someones house the other day and he had his cheap speakers wired out of phase, I can't believe he didn't notice, it's such an odd sensation of dissapearing sound. I make a funny bob my head left-right thing at the focal point.
This pad sounds great in stereo, then gone. It's baffling. |
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Get-a-fix
Getafix
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Posted : May 25, 2007 21:24
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 26, 2007 01:31
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just the virus unisson pan spread at full widen too much the sound maybe it s that? |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
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Posted : May 26, 2007 12:11
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wellllll
i hate the idea i have to ruin my shiny mix in stereo for peaple listen in damm mono.
if i play in club then fuck this club if they cant afford stereo.. what is it the 50's ??
who the fuck listen in mono ??? and why 
this is the new millenium , we should all be making 5.1 music like fuckn 5 years ago.. and complain on mono ???
now , for phase issue , im sure it happens in stereo also , but more got to do with the speaker setup and placement. hate to walk around dancefloor and hear filter swaps  is it realy the speaker or also the mix ?
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Tomos
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 26, 2007 14:12
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It's been discussed here before, and I was pretty shocked to learn most clubs are mono but it makes sense. We are well past the 50's! But if you think about it, engineering stereo for people in a club is virtually impossible, only a handful of people are standing at the right place to achieve all stereo effects, it would mean more wiring and more amps - and for what, so a few people would be at the right place to achieve a swoosh past their head. Clubs are all completely different shapes (espcially in London!) and getting a stereo field isn't the primary concern of most club owners.
At that volume and scale its got to be mono, the only situations where stereo and surround would work would be at a properly engineered live event with everyone facing the front or else a party in a circle.
As far as I know there are no set rules for surround, it's a mix mystery and an engineers headache.
I don't think the future of music depends on learning 5.1 just yet. |
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Honguito
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : May 26, 2007 19:07
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Well yeah, it seems like the left and the right signals are cancelling eachother out.
I'd try out a phase reverse.
Split the stereo lead audio file into two mono tracks. To make them sound the same way as they did before the stereo split, u just hardpan the left signal to the left and the other one to the right. Now the lead plays in stereo. From here on, make a phase reverse on one of the audio parts. Hopefully it'll make the lead sound better in mono. |
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Seppa
Started Topics :
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485
Posted : May 27, 2007 02:38
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Quote:
| i hate the idea i have to ruin my shiny mix in stereo for peaple listen in damm mono.
f i play in club then fuck this club if they cant afford stereo.. what is it the 50's ??
who the fuck listen in mono ??? and why |
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Even if some venues or concert will be in stereo it is not gonna be always like that.
why ?! Because its simply easier to manage a mono sound than a stereo sound. In big concert you will have people at the extreme right of the front of house and some at the left. If the performance is transmitted in stereo people at the left will hear different from the one at the right.
There is also the problem of the reinforcement speakers which are usually dispersed.
In Clubs its no different there are speakers dispersed everywhere and a mono signal is better. Now the signal always comes out of the desk in stereo it only get mixed to a mono signal after the desk.
I've been doing live engineering for many venues and many of them would have a live show in stereo, but those who had a stereo set up were small venue with little or no reinforcement speakers.
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| this is the new millenium , we should all be making 5.1 music like fuckn 5 years ago.. and complain on mono ???
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Can't agree more with you ! Quality, is important for me. And a lot of sound system and venue are simply rubbish.
This doesn't stop any of us to make good stereo or surround music, the only thing is that we have to make sure it will sound good in mono.
with a little bit of effort we can all do that.
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