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Mixing with phase
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Lucidity
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
40
Posted : Dec 18, 2013 11:17:14
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Hi all!
Question : Does anyone here mix with phase coherence in mind?
Ever since I learn't about phase response and the negative effects of filtering, i.e phase distortion, I'm very conscious about it during producing/mixing.
I work a lot in the live sound domain, setting up and tuning PA's, and thought that if phase is such an important factor (the most important if you ask me) when setting up a rig.. then why can't the same apply when working in a DAW?
Now I know that when working with a PA system, you are essentially working with 'one source' (a mixed track from 20hz-20khz), where in a DAW, you are working with multiple sources that create your final sound.. and that phase is the thing that separates one sound from the next. But surely when you see tutorials of guys saying that you must use 3 different synths to create you bassline and add 20 different filters in series.. the end result regarding phase coherence can't be good?
Saying that, I've gone back to my older projects (before I knew what I was doing  ) and deleted all the filters and EQ's I used to use, and got an even better sound with just one EQ.
Thoughts? 
  http://soundcloud.com/luciditysa |
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snakeo09
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
45
Posted : Dec 18, 2013 12:57
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I would like to hear people's thought on the same subject as well.
Like how Lucidity mentioned, a lot of tutorials do encourage layering to get a "fuller" sound but rarely say anything on phase cancellation issues and how to resolve them.
At the end of the end, it comes down to how it sounds to you, but I feel having tips like this in mind can be useful. |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Dec 18, 2013 14:15
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for me phase is related to timing, timing affect tightness , punch and headroom
if you want the tightess , punchiest mix or keep headroom to try to get a mix that suffer less from loudness you may take care of phase relation ship of some sounds imo..
if you delay your bassline and drums by few ms to the kick to get tightess sound, basically your adjusting their phase relation ship..it s the same..except that in some case you may loose headroom ,for example when delaying a bassline closer to the kick tail insteed of just adjusting his phase and keep it perfecly quantized.. it depends the wavform and their relation..
i wonder if adjusting phase of some sample degrad their sound or not..never checked.. but if yes it s probably very subbtle anyway |
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Lucidity
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
40
Posted : Dec 18, 2013 14:32
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Spot on PoM! Exactly what I was referring to! The phase/time aspect of it
Anyone else have anything to share? |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Dec 18, 2013 15:34
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Quote:
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On 2013-12-18 14:15, PoM wrote:
for me phase is related to timing, timing affect tightness , punch and headroom
if you want the tightess , punchiest mix or keep headroom to try to get a mix that suffer less from loudness you may take care of phase relation ship of some sounds imo..
if you delay your bassline and drums by few ms to the kick to get tightess sound, basically your adjusting their phase relation ship..it s the same..except that in some case you may loose headroom ,for example when delaying a bassline closer to the kick tail insteed of just adjusting his phase and keep it perfecly quantized.. it depends the wavform and their relation..
i wonder if adjusting phase of some sample degrad their sound or not..never checked.. but if yes it s probably very subbtle anyway
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yep, it's more important with sounds that need space in the mix. like, if you want a real hard hitting snare on your track, then it's probably a good idea to nudge/delay the snare a bit, so as to limit the summing in volume with kick and snare hitting together. you save headroom more then anything else, can be something like 3dBFS difference, without any kind of squashing of dynamics, just by doing that.
I worry about phase correlation when mixing layers for drums, but having them exactly phase aligned isn't always the best sounding option.
I think it's important that there's no phase shifting in the low end frequencies, and even today it's better for it to be dead centre, if you ask me. But then it's mostly about timing and tightness for me. Been down the road of "being constantly aware of it", but then decided it's just an effect of knowing the theory behind things and it's counter intuitive imo. You take what's useful, like what's been said about nudging stuff a few ms - but while we're saying that on a phase related topic, could also go in a "groove" one or "how to get your sounds tight and punchy" one.
EDIT
I like to use the haas effect on some sounds. make a double and delay it a couple ms, pan the two in opposing directions kind of stuff. That's playing with our perception through the use of phase differences to. |
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