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MIXING & MASTERING AMBIENT MUSIC
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Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
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729
Posted : Apr 8, 2013 10:28
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PsyGalaXy
IsraTrance Full Member
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68
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437
Posted : Apr 8, 2013 18:21
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Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
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729
Posted : Apr 8, 2013 21:05
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
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1352
Posted : Apr 9, 2013 03:26
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You are mistaking dynamic range with clever volume automation!
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Not really. One of the things a compressor can do to decrease the dynamic range is bringing the loudest portions of a piece of audio closer (in volume) to the lowest, right? That can be done with clever volume automation. The way a compressor works is it brings down the levels that go past the threshold, applying gain reduction (volume). To some extent, I'm willing to say that compressors are nothing more then automatic volume controllers. The result of this process changes the dynamic range. But compressors usually deal with either peak level or RMS (which is the same but with a slower refresh rate, so to speak). You can get away with doing even the side chain effect for kick and bass with "clever automation". You just can't get the character some circuits (or digital recreation of them) can imprint on the material - but that's another story.
And the variation in volume from commercials to movies has got much more to do with the dynamic range of the material, then the format used.
Simple test: run some audio out of the tv box into your sound card and watch those graphs.
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Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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729
Posted : Apr 9, 2013 13:01
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Apr 9, 2013 13:54
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@ Frisbeehead: volume automation is not the same as compression in this case, while I agree that you can use volume automation instead of sidechaining (can easily be done in Fl studio for instance and they even have a plugin for it) you still have a compressed signal that is volume automated versus an uncompressed signal, and there is a difference.
As to part two of your answer, the loudness differences of ads versus films has indeed to do with the center channel compression amongst other things, and it is all about those technical specifications, I don't want to explain it to you in detail as this would amount to a huge post, but it suffices to say that I have worked with this before and that the compression of 5.1 or nowadays more and more 7.1 files into Dts with programs such as compressor which is a part of Final Cut Pro and the different compression ratios have to do with how loud the end product is. The more you compress the center channel which largely has most of the dialog in it, (except for any reverberation, which comes out in all the other channels, almost never in the bass channel and pretty much never in the center channel), the louder you can make the overall loudness of all the track where the center channel is usually mixed loudest, because dialog is always mixed loudest in any file used for tv, film or ad! Otherwise you would not be able to hear what is being said at times.
Add to that the encoding into Stereo from any surround format and the whole thing becomes even more obvious, especially because the center channel signal gets attenuated when translated into stereo format...
A lot of time music gets attenuated in order to protect dialog, as dialog is king in any movie, not the music. So you might argue that the volume automation of the music can be construed as dynamic range, but if you do the same with a music track that has a large dynamic range ( and you will have to do that at times in order to get the dia out first), you will have a very hard time automating it right to the dialog, so that you can hear the music properly and at the same time understand what's being said. And this is only one of the reasons why Sound mixers and therefor also music supervisors want their music squished into oblivion most times, sad but true...
 Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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1352
Posted : Apr 9, 2013 20:32
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Don't get me wrong. You mentioned the "loudness standards" and new laws. And also made a great point about adds not being subject to the same laws, thus sounding much louder. True peak level is different from dynamic range and RMS, I know that.
I know volume automation is not the same thing as compression, but it can be. If you were to manually select all the peaks going past a certain level (threshold) and adjusting there gain by hand - we are talking ms here, very tiny gain adjustments - you'd get a similar result, and it would effectively change the dynamic range. What I was saying is that compressors, generally speaking, are devices that handle dynamics through clever volume (gain) automation, but they do this automatically, rather then by hand. There's plenty of compressor circuits out there. What they share in common is that they tame those peaks down, hence producing "gain reduction" - every time you talk gain, you're talking volume.
And you're focusing much on the formats. That's what's on the backstage. The result is a noticeable (and measurable) difference in dynamics. All digital signals have 0dBFS as maximum peak level, right? That's the signal you get out of any digital tv box. And while you're talking about specific loudness laws, applied in Canada. I can assure you, it's not the same here in Europe and other regions of the world. There's plenty of loudness laws, and that's why I mentioned TC Electronics, as they're trying to create new standards.
EDIT
Oh, and never said anything about the dynamic range for the music in movies. Just the overall mix compared to adds. Just said that the music gets mixed with the rest imo. And even processed further if such a thing is needed. So it's just another layer on a mix.
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PsyGalaXy
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
68
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437
Posted : Apr 10, 2013 19:21
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Apr 11, 2013 06:55
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On 2013-04-10 19:21, PsyGalaXy wrote:
Yoo! great!!I'm gonna pass very very asap just waiting some meetings to be confirmed!
Have a blassting week to u and family 
Getting some minor adjustements with eq and mmultiband comps on busses,trying not to go too heavy
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good luck with the final adjustments! let us ear the results afterwards, if it's possible! |
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Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
729
Posted : Apr 11, 2013 11:02
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metamorphosis music
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
100
Posted : Apr 11, 2013 12:02
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interesting thread, i think this comes down to personal preference. What do you value more? loudness, or depth/ dimension/separation/dynamics..? ive always thought quality sound and dynamics was no where near worth the sacrifice for loudness. It seems to become the norm to over compress and make things loud but then loosing soooo much on the way. y after years of experimenting, decided on pretty much all my tracks almost no compression in mixing or mastering, only when really needs it less is almost always more. so instead much more volume automation, yeh more work n less loud but i think worth it 
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https://soundcloud.com/alon-chen |
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PsyGalaXy
IsraTrance Full Member
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437
Posted : Apr 29, 2013 06:45
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PsyGalaXy
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jun 10, 2013 18:36
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