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Mixdown question
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psycho-italiano
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Oct 23, 2008 02:08:52
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Hello friends,
I’ve already searched for the answer in the forum but I’ve got lost here, so maybe you could answer me or post a link to the relevant thread.
The question is:
Is it ok to lower the master channel after finishing the Mix in order to avoid audio clips?
Some friends said: never touch the master channel! Try to fix clips by mix (compressions, limiting, etc…).
But others said: just lower the master and all will be ok (its very easy for me, and I hope its healthy for the sound later – {{mastering, etc…}} ) !
So I am confused now.
What’s the deference between both ways, if there is at all?
thanks alot,
peace!
  Break The Matrix! |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Oct 23, 2008 02:29
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psycho-italiano
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
191
Posted : Oct 23, 2008 02:54
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thank you so much for your quick response mate! 
just one more quick question:
if i do the first method (lowering the master ch), then later on, once the sound engineer compress the file to the max, will those clips affect the sound each time they appear? - coz those clips somehow are the loudest points as I understand, will not those ruin my sound (the kick bass, etc…)? or I cant notice them after mastering? But what if the clips are in row of 10 seconds, (1 second on, 1 second off, etc…) will lowering the master ch still good?
really many many thanks
Break The Matrix! |
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Kitnam
Mantik
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110
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Posted : Oct 23, 2008 20:20
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i am not sure if i understand you correctly.
when nothing but the masterbus is clipping you can pull down the masterfader without quality loss.
when something is clipping which is not the masterbus then you have mixed to high and you will need to pull down everything until nothing clips.
but take care about the masterbus, when you pull down the masterfader it is post-fx usually. means that the inputs and outputs of your master-fx (if you loaded something) may be clipping anyway and produce quality loss delivered by digital distortion.
so if you run fx on the masterbus, then you need to overwatch the clipping indicators there too.
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Medea
Aedem/Medea
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127
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Posted : Oct 23, 2008 22:19
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also, keep in mind that if you decrease or increase volume of all channels, it doesn't neccesarry mean that your mix will sound the same, but quiter\louder, because, if you use compressors, their tresholds keep staying where they have been. So, take care:) It's always better to keep enough headroom, indeed.
http://soundcloud.com/aedem |
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psycho-italiano
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
191
Posted : Oct 24, 2008 01:22
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thanks alot guys
u helped me!
peace
Break The Matrix! |
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 24, 2008 18:09
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if I remember right, its exactly the opposite way in logic as colin and kitnam described.
the single channels are ok since they are processed in more than 24bit, but the fader of the output channel is after the render output. so its just like a monitor control and you should never touch it 
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Oct 24, 2008 22:41
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As far as I know, audio is converted to the format required by the soundcard, by the soundcard driver, not by the DAW. This is why if you change from a soundcard that can only render at 16-bit to one that can render at 24-bit, you don't need to change anything in your DAW to take advantage of the better playback quality; ie. the signal path is 32-bit float even after the master fader. This is also why lowering the master fader doesn't just make the clipped audio quieter (as it would if it was just a monitor controller) but lets you bring back the clipped audio as you make it quieter - it's the soundcard driver that's clipping the audio, not the master fader! But if anyone programmes DAWs for a living and can tell me I'm wrong, I'm glad to be corrected.
Also, the advice given above about compressor thresholds only applies if those compressors are being fed by aux sends, or (in SX) are in the last two slots of the insert rack, which are post-fader. Most of the time, compressors are used in pre-fader inserts and so will be unaffected by lowering the fader. In addition, if you're bouncing your finished mix you should really not be using any processing on it anyway, as (I think?) the consensus is that mastering/post-processing gets much better results if it's done as a separate task to the mixdown.
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Oct 24, 2008 22:54
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talking about logic 5 on pc, where the bounced file with lowered masterfader still clips. I never tested it with the newer versions on mac yet since I just got around that habbit.
imo its better to get everything right before the masterfader, and I became also a friend of prefader metering.
anyway, there is really no reason to go above -3db on the master, if even near that.
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Oct 25, 2008 17:23
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MadScientist
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Oct 25, 2008 19:45
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thats true...I'm just wondering since my logic teacher who is apple certified trainer said that its not working just to lower the masterfader, but clipping on channels doesnt matter.
I'm going to test that soon.
https://soundcloud.com/hazak
"Have you ever had that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?"
"Hmm, yeah... All the time, man - it's called mescaline. The only way to fly!" |
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Medea
Aedem/Medea
Started Topics :
127
Posts :
1132
Posted : Oct 25, 2008 21:24
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Quote:
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Also, the advice given above about compressor thresholds only applies if those compressors are being fed by aux sends, or (in SX) are in the last two slots of the insert rack, which are post-fader. Most of the time, compressors are used in pre-fader inserts and so will be unaffected by lowering the fader.
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convincing...
i was wrong then.
http://soundcloud.com/aedem |
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