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mind to computer -- is it ever possible?
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zooter
IsraTrance Junior Member
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771
Posted : Jun 21, 2004 15:49
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i was wondering...i have been wondering for a long time now....
how many people get really good tunes in their heads? and will it ever be possible for a software to be created that could directly convert your thoughts into sounds.....
would be really cool and wicked at the same time...
sorry if this post seems lame, but i sure wish i could have such a software which would let me express exactly the sounds going thru my mind 
  Interviewer: "So Frank, you have long hair. Does that make you a woman?"
Frank Zappa: "You have a wooden leg. Does that make you a table?" |
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bandarlog
Bandarlog
Started Topics :
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809
Posted : Jun 21, 2004 16:27
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You mean you don't use the NI mindreader VST? |
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
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40
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603
Posted : Jun 21, 2004 16:37
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There are studies going on now about creating a direct mind to computer link. Currently it requires probes to be placed directly on the brain (mmm, open-head surgery), so for obvious reasons it isn't quite to maintstream consumer uses yet. But I'm sure that the technology will continue to refine until we can simply put on a helmet and do the same thing that the test patients are doing now.
Imagine not having a mouse or a keyboard, just watching the screen controlling the pointer with your mind, writing leads by humming them in your mind, programming drums exactly as you hear them.
THAT will be cool.  |
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AhmedTaburov
IsraTrance Full Member
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294
Posted : Jun 21, 2004 19:23
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I know that half of my "music" is created by "mistakes"...
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XrTC
Started Topics :
7
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720
Posted : Jun 21, 2004 19:48
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i don't think something like that will be possible in the near future, at least not until science makes huge steps in understanding the human mind.
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Respect is earned, not demanded...
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http://www.myspace.com/xrtcmusic
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Stuff
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jun 21, 2004 21:11
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I've had this thought too for 10 years now. I always "produce" crazy stuff in my mind, a couple of albums each day sometimes... And when i have this perfect 'feelin' and touch in my brain and sit down to create it on the computer or keyboard, it always ends up totally different and something else of course  .
But as AhmedTaburov mentioned, some mistakes in this creation can progress to very nice ideas too for instance. |
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
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2849
Posted : Jun 21, 2004 23:37
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Simple mind to computer is already possible!
Monkey play with mind computer simple games to get food, some people are move points on a screen just by thinking.
The monkey, i think, got in implant on nerves, for
points the electric of brain is used.
Blind eople can see with cameras connected to
their seeing nerves, so i think in about 10-50 years
(computers will not be the same as they are, new systems) we will be connected to computer systems.
The IBM standart will stay next 10-20 years, maybe shorter. New computer systems will set the basis for this technology.
Today is much more possible than we know (i don't know why, maybe we are to lazy (me at least) to search all day for that kind of news).
The future will bring unimagable chages in our lifes.
The development goes faster and faster, think of
mobiles, cd to dvds and all that stuff.
Future is now
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Triptocoma
Inactive User
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296
Posted : Jun 22, 2004 01:19
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Mistakes! - That is the keyword to our existens!
Our existens is a big mistake and we live in a hallucination!
the hallucinations comes from a toxic fume that our earth produces and we all inhale it!
laters
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zooter
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
44
Posts :
771
Posted : Jun 22, 2004 09:20
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Quote:
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On 2004-06-21 16:27, bandarlog wrote:
You mean you don't use the NI mindreader VST?
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lol.....can you give me that plugin??
my opinion...just not possible, and if that day comes, we'll all be slaves to machines (or will be in the matrix)....
Interviewer: "So Frank, you have long hair. Does that make you a woman?"
Frank Zappa: "You have a wooden leg. Does that make you a table?" |
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florin
Started Topics :
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16
Posted : Jun 22, 2004 11:05
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this is really difficult. there probably are no clever shortcuts.
i can think of 2 problems:
1) we can (in theory, in the future) capture the entire electrical activity of the brain. the problem is with interpretation. for higher level tasks (such as thinking of music), it is likely that the signals are only meaningful to your brain.
2) when you hear music, you do not hear the music, but you hear the effects the music it has on your brain. you are able to change those, to fool yourself that you really hear music. this is supported by the fact that if you don't put in the effort, you will hear abstract sounds.
1) and 2) lead me to believe that you need an _understanding_ of how the brain works (effectively code) so that you might feed it the data (electric signals you capture) as input and get the music back. we are very very very far away from that.
in 20 years we will have the computing power to simulate a living cell in software. in another 20 years, we will be able to simulate a collection of cells as large as the brain in software. only then, imo, will we be able to do the research that will lead to what you're asking. effectively, we need strong AI.
now, having said that, we might get lucky. NASA has done work where they capture the electrical signals that drive your vocal chords and use those to drive software that models the vocal chords (like VB-1 models a string). they can hear what you want to say without you actually saying, provided you're thinking about saying it. this abuses the fact the brain does all the hard processing for an output channel (your voice). now, replace their software with a (future) synth of your choice. you'll be able to control that in a much more intuitive manner. it is really unlikely that all the music you hear is processed down to commands for the vocal chords when you think about singing it. but if it does, and we're able to tap at that point in the brain, well lucky us.
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Top-down
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
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119
Posted : Jun 22, 2004 11:44
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Funny, this is an exect picture of future music production in my imagination for an about a year now.
Will it ever happen ? Sure !
When ? We can't say for sure, but guessing the date remember - the technology developes in an exponatial manner (faster with farther development), so it still is able to surprise us.
What will it change ? Everything and nothing ! Those who create great music now will do it faster (things like mastering and synths programming are the first in this killist), those who do not have it (talent,I guess) will continue blowing the world with their "killer" releases (mental polution)...
Now I can go to the live-performance area and into artist-listener co-production,
but those really are too imaginary for : Jun 22, 2004 11:44 @ Haifa, Israel...
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
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2849
Posted : Jun 22, 2004 11:47
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Quote:
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in 20 years we will have the computing power to simulate a living cell in software. in another 20 years, we will be able to ...
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I agree in all your points, maybe but this technology will be avaible much faster.
The point is only in the USA are over 20 laboryties research 'nano' stuff. In USA mainly for developing weapons, they create ultra weapons.
But with this technology, that can be very dangerous, it is possibly to create computers we can't imagine really, they will be ultra fast, they are so tiny that we can't see them, they are in our brains connecting directly to nerves.
Communicating with each other and with us.
And it is possible tah this will happen in near future.
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Amygdala
Amygdala
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12
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175
Posted : Jun 22, 2004 12:10
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I think of the mind as a computer. That's not really a controversial view, but it offers some insights to what may be possible, and impossible.
I think interfacing to actual computers is indeed very possible, but as stated earlier, interpretation is a major problem. Think of two different computers, mac and PC. They have different hardware architectures, and therefore can not (directly) run each others programs. Each organic brain has it's very own unique architecture, and therefore doesn't understand what's going on in another brain - or computers. Chips can easily be connected to nerves, and exchange signals, but interpreting the signals...
I once heard of a robotic arm, that can be used for a substitute of a severed limb. Connecting it to the nerves in the shoulder, the human (now cyborg) can learn to adjust nerve impulses to control the arm rather efficiently in about a year. But instead, some scientists thought, "hey, why not let the arm learn to interpret the minds signals...?", and they implemented a neural net or some genetic algorithm (spelling?) in it - and the human could now control it properly in a matter of two weeks... Wow
Thus, it would be really neat with substituting a MIDI (musical instrument digital interface) with a "MMDI" (musical mind digital interface), and I seriously believe it can be done. And how cool it would be - imagine hooking up to it at night, go to sleep, and let your dreams write music :-D
- Amygdala |
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Input
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
24
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456
Posted : Jun 22, 2004 12:24
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The idea is old and very brilliant but it has some basic problem,
your mind can think only one thought at a time, which mean your head will never play a full track and it would need to export one channel at a time, i don't want to think about the handwork after the head export- anyway it's not bad to do it channel by channel but even i believe the technology will come one day- it will never export a full track at once and will be a work anyway(less then now but still something) beside i think (IMO) that one of the big problems in the world is that too many people doing the same things, too many computer pro's and too much taxi drivers what makes their value to decrease- what i'm trying to say is that long time ago let's say 10 years ago, only authorized engineer could fix your computer and you would highly appreciate his knowledge and skills but today everybody can fix and maintain his computer because the manufactures make the peoples in the world to be dumb as possible and not use their brain for the above tasks, of course that the reason for this is to give the humans more time to concentrate on some more important tasks but that's not the real situation- the real thing is that there's not enough work for the real pro's and they are not getting their real appreciation- things getting commercial u know.
and back to the subject- even so i do want that everybody in the world will make music i do know also that music creators will not be so appreciated like today's legendary artists and everyone will think that the computer is doing it and so on,
Space is the place
http://www.megabit.co.il |
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zooter
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
44
Posts :
771
Posted : Jun 22, 2004 12:27
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Quote:
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On 2004-06-22 12:10, Amygdala wrote:
I think of the mind as a computer. That's not really a controversial view, but it offers some insights to what may be possible, and impossible.
I think interfacing to actual computers is indeed very possible, but as stated earlier, interpretation is a major problem. Think of two different computers, mac and PC. They have different hardware architectures, and therefore can not (directly) run each others programs. Each organic brain has it's very own unique architecture, and therefore doesn't understand what's going on in another brain - or computers. Chips can easily be connected to nerves, and exchange signals, but interpreting the signals...
I once heard of a robotic arm, that can be used for a substitute of a severed limb. Connecting it to the nerves in the shoulder, the human (now cyborg) can learn to adjust nerve impulses to control the arm rather efficiently in about a year. But instead, some scientists thought, "hey, why not let the arm learn to interpret the minds signals...?", and they implemented a neural net or some genetic algorithm (spelling?) in it - and the human could now control it properly in a matter of two weeks... Wow
Thus, it would be really neat with substituting a MIDI (musical instrument digital interface) with a "MMDI" (musical mind digital interface), and I seriously believe it can be done. And how cool it would be - imagine hooking up to it at night, go to sleep, and let your dreams write music :-D
- Amygdala
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offtopic:
so, we meet again
and yet again, though i'd love to see a device like u said, i think it is just not possible.
people copying other's music and making full-on that sounds like its made in the same studio is bad enough. Imagine the situation if the computer is in control....all tracks would sound the same and we need to have an intro for each track saying "Track by Zooter - track name" etc. for each track.
i'm getting a bit carried away here, so, i'll stop....
Interviewer: "So Frank, you have long hair. Does that make you a woman?"
Frank Zappa: "You have a wooden leg. Does that make you a table?" |
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