| Author
|
Mid - Side processing
|
supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
1505
Posted : Jun 1, 2012 10:51:48
|
Do you guys have any recommendations on a good plug in for mid-side processing?
Every now and then I want to keep some sounds out of the middle. I can double the track of course and push both to the sides. But that is a bit complicated if you have a vst running. So which plugin do you use to push sounds to the sides?
  soundcloud.com/supergroover |
|
|
|
Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
729
Posted : Jun 1, 2012 11:05
|
Voxengo MSED and it's free!
If you use it in Inline mode, you have complete control of how much M vs. S you have. Just be aware that all M or all S will take you back to mono though (albeit of a different kind), so at some stage the extra stereo width collapses.
I'll sometimes run two instances, one in Encode mode, then send that out to the analogue chain so I can compress or EQ the M and S differently, then a Decode instance on the way back in to return to normal stereo. You can get some nice stereo widening effects by compressing the M more, increasing the high end slightly on the S, etc.
http://hermetechmastering.com : http://www.discogs.com/artist/Gregg+Janman : http://soundcloud.com/babaluma |
|
|
|
supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
1505
Posted : Jun 1, 2012 15:14
|
|
thnx!
soundcloud.com/supergroover |
|
|
|
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jun 1, 2012 20:43
|
Quote:
|
On 2012-06-01 11:05, Babaluma wrote:
Voxengo MSED and it's free!
I'll sometimes run two instances, one in Encode mode, then send that out to the analogue chain so I can compress or EQ the M and S differently, then a Decode instance on the way back in to return to normal stereo. You can get some nice stereo widening effects by compressing the M more, increasing the high end slightly on the S, etc.
|
|
+1 with the voxengo ms ed great plug !
a other technic that i like is too compress just the side to increase the presence of ambiance and stereo width and preserve the mix when it don't really need compression.
offtopic but Babaluma do you get some good result as bringiing back some "dynamic " to squashed mix with compression or other technic? havent experienced much with this yet.. many mixs are already too squashed ... have to go deeper into this..the dc8c have a great negative ratio mode that could be maybe just the ticket. |
|
|
|
Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
729
Posted : Jun 1, 2012 23:35
|
i'll always ask for the limiter to be taken off the two bus bus mastering. usually clients will comply, but sometimes they'll isist it stays on, and the customer os always right so...
if a mix is well recorded and mixed, and they've used limiting or compression on individual trackls or busses, it's usually fine, but some times they overdo it.
i'll usually spend the most time in mastering on playing with and figuring out what compressor attack and release times sound the best to "groove" with the track. this can also bring back some of the lost transients, for example by using a slower attack time and a shorter release.
to be honest i very rarely use MS compression or EQ in mastering. i will often use it as a simple MS volume control, for stereo width enhancement, by either reducing the M or boosting the S, but never more than about 0.5dB.
http://hermetechmastering.com : http://www.discogs.com/artist/Gregg+Janman : http://soundcloud.com/babaluma |
|
|
|
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jun 2, 2012 02:46
|
|
what i find strange, some mix feel exactly like they are too much compressed..thin and harsh..no depth ...the guys say they dont use much compression .. i come to the conclusion is the use/abuse of distortion and exciter who make their mix sound like its overcompressed. add to that "digital" sounding distortion to some "digital" sounding plugins synths that feel already compressed even dry and you get mix that sound like they have been squashed to death , it can be a headache to get something decent out of these thin and harsh mix |
|
|
|
Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
729
Posted : Jun 2, 2012 11:02
|
|
Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jun 7, 2012 01:47
|
I've had good results using a multiband compressor to lift out transients from an already-limited mix. With a positive range you can use the time constants like envelope controls to shape the recovered peaks.
Most of the time I end up having to do this kind of thing because the artist's original project is not available and they can't make an un-limited version. So far I've not had anyone 'insist' on keeping the limiter on there; invariably they are apologetic that they can't give me a version without.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
|
|
|
Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
729
Posted : Jun 7, 2012 10:55
|
yeah i need to spend more time with multi-band techniques, i've never actually used a multi-band compressor or limiter, but the one built into samplitude pro x is supposed to be very good. will give it a try.
yeah, i'll often get apologies for not having an unlimited version too, but you have to work with what you're given. i had one client insist that it stayed on. i tried to explain why it was not ideal. i even did two versions for them (their mix with their limiting, both on and off), and they preferred the version with their limiting on. of course that meant my hands were tied a bit in the mastering, but they were happy with the result in the end.
i guess so many people are actually mixing into a limiter now, which i think is a terrible practice, but that's gonna shape the mix differently than if you left it off. therefore, if you mix into it, then just take it off, in some instances things are going to sound wrong.
the conundrums of modern digital audio production, haha!
http://hermetechmastering.com : http://www.discogs.com/artist/Gregg+Janman : http://soundcloud.com/babaluma |
|
|
|
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jun 7, 2012 13:16
|
mixed dc8c negative ratio with expension...it don t expand but give a even more prononced compression..
Colin its what i was thinking for, using expansion to bring back dynamic , have to experiment with this .
some mimimum phase multibands are really not transparent in the low/low mids with their crossovers ,dunno how the samplitude one is...
a mate use a little expansion in the last stage after the volume boost/limiter...work great for him for making some techno track loud and avoiding too squashed sound |
|
|
|
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jun 7, 2012 13:34
|
Quote:
|
On 2012-06-07 10:55, Babaluma wrote:
i guess so many people are actually mixing into a limiter now, which i think is a terrible practice, but that's gonna shape the mix differently than if you left it off. therefore, if you mix into it, then just take it off, in some instances things are going to sound wrong.
the conundrums of modern digital audio production, haha!
|
|
yeah true... same with compressors.. as always if it sound right but when it don t  |
|
|
|
supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
1505
Posted : Jun 7, 2012 19:49
|
I assume these people handing you limited versions of their tracks are starters right?
soundcloud.com/supergroover |
|
|
|
Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
729
Posted : Jun 7, 2012 20:16
|
Quote:
|
On 2012-06-07 13:34, PoM wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2012-06-07 10:55, Babaluma wrote:
i guess so many people are actually mixing into a limiter now, which i think is a terrible practice, but that's gonna shape the mix differently than if you left it off. therefore, if you mix into it, then just take it off, in some instances things are going to sound wrong.
the conundrums of modern digital audio production, haha!
|
|
yeah true... same with compressors.. as always if it sound right but when it don t
|
|
yeah, but mixing into a compressor is a tried and tested technique that has been around for decades, and is really no problem at all, as long as it's done for aesthetic effect and is not overdone.
mixing into a digital brickwall limiter is an entirely different kettle of fish, and has the potential to completely ruin a mix in the wrong hands. if this has been done to a track before mastering, there is very little we can do to rectify it, or make it sound better.
http://hermetechmastering.com : http://www.discogs.com/artist/Gregg+Janman : http://soundcloud.com/babaluma |
|
|
|
Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
729
Posted : Jun 7, 2012 20:21
|
Quote:
|
On 2012-06-07 19:49, supergroover wrote:
I assume these people handing you limited versions of their tracks are starters right? |
|
usually, but not always, and for some styles of music, or particular musicians, this IS the sound that they want. you can explain shit until you're blue in the face, but it's a service industry first and foremost.
it's most apparent when you're asked to master a compilation from many different sources. some tracks will come to you "already mastered", and some will come to you with nothing on the stereo buss. it's your job to properly master the unhurt mixes, and try and find some way to make the already smashed mixes fit in with the rest. i've turned smashed mixes down 6-9dB just to fit with the rest of the tracks on acompilation.  rather that, than turn everything else up just to compete, and end up with a mess.
sorry, rant over!
http://hermetechmastering.com : http://www.discogs.com/artist/Gregg+Janman : http://soundcloud.com/babaluma |
|
|
|
vipal
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
123
Posts :
1397
Posted : Jun 11, 2012 03:09
|
|
