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Melody Tutorial
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Feb 8, 2007 08:24
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NikC - so after having done all those years of music theory u reckon u wasted your time? Ive asked u this question before and u said no.
In my perception theory doesnt make u do something over something else exclusively. But it does show u what will work in which context, and also raise your consciousness to be aware of other musical concepts that u just didnt know about before. I would say that is anything but a waste of time, and would definitely say that it in no way stifles your creativity, more like lets u get on with the important bits instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. And definitely gives a perspective on what can be done, whats possible. |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Feb 8, 2007 17:55
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Learning music theory is by no means a waste of time, but to write music you only need a basic understanding. I have friends who are classically trained to the point that their cant listen to some folk and eastern music because they got so warpped up in western intonation that anything else sounds out of tune and they have the same view on music as I do on maths where there is either a correct answer or a wrong answer.
They are very boring people to jam with in short. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Feb 8, 2007 19:03
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Music theory is unfortunately western music theory. If u wanna do eastern or ethnic then it will hinder you. Fair point.
But the choice u have to make is whether u wanna b an eclectic diletante or focused professional.
Personally I feel no sense of loss, I dont perceive eastern music as music, with the exception of some arabic stuff. |
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NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Feb 8, 2007 19:19
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That's an enormously sweeping derogatory statement which, even theoretically, is wrong.
The study of raga scales (indian scales) for example is now incorporated into classical training.
The polyrhythmic time signatures in african drumming (music) led to the sudden interest in changing, ever more complicated time-signatures. Partly why contemporary music became so elitist and inaccessible for a while. Thank fuck for minimalism eh - I recon that's up your street...
Played a piece with in 10/15 when I was still in the orchestra... no, i did not write mean to write 16.
If you don't percieve eastern music as music, or feel you have the potential to understand it, or try to understand it... you will never be a professional composer.
You'll just be stuck writing endless pastiches of the same old shit.
May I give you an example too:
Danny Elfman
One of, if not the most sought after film and tv score composers in the world (The credits are too long to list)... never had a formal musical training, and is writing IMO some of the best music about.
He just has alot of talent.
What overuse of theory says to me is:
"I can't actually hear what sounds good"
In any case... eastern musical theory is just as complicated as western.
And if you don't consider it music, you're quite frankly stuck up your own arsehole.
Music is about sound... it's how things work together.
Music is just a sonic puzzle.
"What will work in what contexts" as you said...
Just sounds like Dance eJay to me again.
To be honest, and I say this to everyone, maybe there's a point in ones music writing career where one should sit down and ask:
"Can I actually hear music, just for itself - pure and simple... and can I hear my own music before it's been made, or while i'm making it"
Be honest with yourselves....
And to answer your question - i don't think I've wasted my time having studied music theory for such a long time.
But I don't use it consciously when I compose...
In interpretation it's useful and for general musical understanding i've really loved it.
But... when it truly comes down to making music you can call your own - it'll never do.
Say what you will about my music as well - at least I know it's mine.
 www.myspace.com/beat_nik |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 08:27
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So then are u saying u shouldnt study theory, Im not quite sure where u stand on this?
Sorry about having missed the odd smidgeon of eastern music tradition thats actually been incorporated into western music.seems like u have to study a few years of western music to even know about it. In any case uve demosntrated your point.
Anyway, I just want trance composers to make stuff thats interesting and good, not stuff thats ok because its "their's". Its amazing how much furor u kick up against theory, when someone says that people should study music theory, even tho uve been studying it since when u were what, 6?
I doubt I will be a professional composer, and I doubt that 90% of trance is anything but suitable for the trash bin, whats wrong with giving these people an avenue for self betterment?
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Feb 9, 2007 19:17
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Trance isnt about bullet proof composition. It's about layering rhythms, sounds then building them up and breaking them down. A melody is merely a secret weapon which can be used when all the other coals are in the fire to make that flame burn a little higher, even just for one moment. Sometimes just a couple of very simple notes do the trick when a dancefloor is at boiling point anyway.
You should check out the first track on tiesto's just be album if that is the sort of trance you like. It has movement, layering and some pretty nice crescendos, but speaking for a psychedelia based form of electronic music I think you've missed a few points. |
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NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Feb 10, 2007 01:37
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Quote:
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On 2007-02-09 08:27, bukboy wrote:
So then are u saying u shouldnt study theory, Im not quite sure where u stand on this?
Sorry about having missed the odd smidgeon of eastern music tradition thats actually been incorporated into western music.seems like u have to study a few years of western music to even know about it. In any case uve demosntrated your point.
Anyway, I just want trance composers to make stuff thats interesting and good, not stuff thats ok because its "their's". Its amazing how much furor u kick up against theory, when someone says that people should study music theory, even tho uve been studying it since when u were what, 6?
I doubt I will be a professional composer, and I doubt that 90% of trance is anything but suitable for the trash bin, whats wrong with giving these people an avenue for self betterment?
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To be honest - I think that my standpoint on the whole theory thing is:
It's useful but it's not necessarily everything.
I do, in retrospect realise my post was abit ott, didn't mean it to come across as a "furore"
BUT
I don't like the idea of putting people off writing music if they don't understand theory... but have a great melody in their heads.
Who knows, it might be the catchiest melody ever! If they realise it's not theoretically 'correct' it might spoil it's creation.
Similarly, I'd recommend learning theory because it's interesting, and in certain circumstances very useful...
And, to change your wording a little bit, it could be an "avenue for self betterment"..
But (and it's a big booty-shakin' BUT) It is under no circumstances, in my opinion, the be all and end all.
Now... I'm not saying you can't be a professional composer with a theory based background, but now that the competition is so high it's not just the theory that counts... it's that extra, original spark in the mix.
And that spark might be, by itself, the only thing needed to make the best piece of music ever 
Wasn't aiming that post at you directly by the way, realise it may have seemed like it, was just abit of a rant.
As for describing trance - everyone has their own opinion... not going to argue with that one.
But again - to repeat myself. I'm all for theory, but not for enforced theory...
Things can happen either way
www.myspace.com/beat_nik |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Feb 10, 2007 07:21
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Before I studied any theory, although I may have had a melody in my head, I certainly didnt know how to develop it, support it, conclude it, how to make it fit in the big picture, or even what harmonic possibilities I had discarded ignorantly.
I think trance is filled with people like me, who stumble about in the dark.Its not enough that trance is simplistic. I want all the tracks played to be classic and interesting, not run of the mill kick, bass & squelch. Certainly u dont need theory to make that. But u can certainly shit your pants and sit in it all day too.
The decent tracks in trance all exhibit massive amounts of theory. Theres just too many smooth technical events that expose the design. It doesnt help that every artist Iv spoken too has had theory training in some form or other.
Its time to face the music, and admit that the people with the theory knowledge make the good music. and the odd exception is rare. But if u wanna be that odd exception because its cooler, then by all means waste your time reinventing the wheel. Just be aware that statistically ur gonna fail.
Whats this crap that every1 on this forum says U DONT NEED THEORY. I agree , u dont need theory if ur a GENIUS. otherwise theory is the only hope of 99.99999% of the rest of us to make decent music.Stop telling people your wishful thinking because you are hurting them. Ive wasted enough of my life on idealism myself, Im old enough to know that hard work and not wishful thinking is the ONLY f'n way.
Have some friggin standards people. Strive to be better. Make something that will last longer than 5 minutes. |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Feb 10, 2007 08:16
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Quote:
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On 2007-02-10 07:21, bukboy wrote:
Before I studied any theory, although I may have had a melody in my head, I certainly didnt know how to develop it, support it, conclude it, how to make it fit in the big picture, or even what harmonic possibilities I had discarded ignorantly.
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Then again think of all the sounds you discard if you don't master FM synthesis. Seriously it's all a matter of style of which everyone has there own in some form or another and it's up to you what you specialise in. But think of the harmonic possibilities you turn down by shunning eastern music principles.
Besides in psychedelic music free improvisation rules all. Look back over the last 50 years and you'll realise most psychedelic music usually feautures chromatic themes in order to break down the wall of predictability that pure theory music puts up, whether it be jazz style runs going in and out through the key or some crazy acid line ripping up any frequency that the programmer desires.
Music theory is basically a hand to hold as you move towards the deep end sooner or later if you really want to create something new, you have to let go. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Feb 10, 2007 08:42
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Music theory is not the end of the line sure. But it raises your consciousness, opens up new doors. Illuminates new directions of improvisation. Even makes improvisation effortless. Ive learnt so much from jazz improvisation. on the fly transposition and some simple real time modulation, a sense for relative intervals and playing a piano like typing. (just imagine any word and before u know it there it is.)
It beats the crap out of sitting and doing nothing but mediocre stuff and then getting a big head coz ur the hero 2 some 2 second attention span drugged up hippy.
sure u dont know all the possibilities of fm, so then learn fm synthesis. Dont just sit on your arse. Thats all I want, an attitude of can-do being promoted to unite the "road map" or "purpose" for newbies instead of hypocritical disagreement on academic grounds .
By the way, can u point me in the direction of some interesting eastern music? |
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Saf
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
210
Posted : Feb 13, 2007 11:44
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Thanks for reminding me of that thread. That was like the one and only helpful thing I've ever read there, and I think I'll go read it again.  |
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e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
933
Posted : Feb 13, 2007 14:10
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