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Maybe a stupid one.... (music theory)
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MuckyPuh
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 5, 2009 15:13:53
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Hello guys..
I have this question which is bothering me for a while.
I have just learned a few basics about scales and now that I know the pattern of major and minor I am asking myself in which key is the song I am working on right now?
I play every melody on a white key so it could be C-major... / A minor ....
my question: does a melody have to start with the note of the scale?
For example: if I play something in C-Major do I have to start the melody with C?
If not – how can I determine the scale of a melody?
If so – my song must be in A-minor because my bassline (and most of the other melodys) starts with A – right?
Thanks a lot for helping me out here – I could find lot of information about scales – but this particular question was is still unanswered
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
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Posted : Jun 5, 2009 15:48
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Quote:
| does a melody have to start with the note of the scale? |
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No. You can play any of the notes in the scale.
Quote:
| how can I determine the scale of a melody? |
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It's easier to determine when there are more notes in the melody. Some melodies, especially those using fewer notes, can fit into multiple scales. (Useful tip for making mood transitions by changing the scale)
For example, A minor and F# minor both have the common notes of A and F#, so if your track is in A minor (with bass being in A) then try doing a segment where you drop the bass to F# and base all your melodies in that segment on F# minor accordingly (or even another F# scale) and see how that affects the mood of your track.
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
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Posted : Jun 5, 2009 15:54
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P.S. Another fun trick is to subtly and gradually rearrange the notes of a melody with each iteration until eventually your melody is based on a different scale than it originally started in.
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MuckyPuh
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 5, 2009 16:58
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thanks for the promt reply - 
... so it doesnt matter at all which notes are in my melody as long as they exist in the scale...
but in this case... where is the difference between
A minor: A B C D E F G A and
C major: C D E F G A B C
every melody which is in the one scale could be in the other as well no`? without any difference?
so if my song is completly written on the tones "C D E F G A B" ill never be able to determin if its A minor or C Major?
... still dont get this point 
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
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Posted : Jun 5, 2009 18:33
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This is A Minor:
A,B,C,D,E,F#,G#,A
This is C Major:
C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C
If you are doing a melody in C Major, don't use notes F# or G#.
If all of your bass notes are C notes and your melody is in C Major, and you want to change the melody to A Minor, move the F and G notes in the C Major scale to F# and G# and now bass and melody are both in A Minor. (The bass notes if they all are C notes are both C Major and A Minor since C is in both scales.)
If you are playing a melody in C Major and you want to switch it to A Major, simply move all notes down 3 semitones, or up 9 semitones.
If all you are doing is playing "white" notes then theoretically you can play any white note on the keyboard and it will always be musically "correct". So if you are using all "white" notes and no "black" notes then it doesn't matter what scale you want to use because it will always be musically harmonious.
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
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Posted : Jun 5, 2009 18:39
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If you want to experiment with your own scales, an easy formula is this:
If you look at an octave on your keyboard you will see that it consists of 12 semitones. Since there are 8 notes to an octave, you can theoretically pick any 8 semitones of that 12 (so, an 8/12 fraction, or 3/4 if reduced) and as long as you never play any of the 4 notes you didn't pick simultaneously, you will still be musically correct.
If you DO want to play one of those 4 notes, then you have to adjust any other notes which are playing so that you still have 4 notes which are never played during THAT PART of the arrangement.
That's a very simple and traditional system to use but there are always ways to break those sorts of rules. But of course first you have to learn the rules before you learn how to break them. There are also scales which make use of more than 8 or less than 8 semitones in an octave. But it's better to start simple and advance to those sorts of theories after you understand what you're currently learning.
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shellbound
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 5, 2009 18:56
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Quote:
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On 2009-06-05 18:33, Axis Mundi wrote:
This is A Minor:
A,B,C,D,E,F#,G#,A
This is C Major:
C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C
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actually, that's ascending melodic minor. he was referring to the natural minor.
to answer your question, you don't have to start your melody on the root note of your scale. in this case, the scale "emerges" after more notes or chords are added. some things will simply start to resolve or center around your root.
all this stuff is relative and heavily defendant on what comes before and after it.
 https://soundcloud.com/dead-end-dance
https://soundcloud.com/shellbound |
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MuckyPuh
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jun 5, 2009 19:32
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yes you are sooo right...
first have to learn the rules to break them - jeje
at the moment iam reading the ravenspiral guide to music theory and some small books...
they say - that the pattern of natural minor is:
[1]- [1/2] - [1] - [1] - [1/2] - [1] - [1]
if i start with A as root and use this pattern i come up with
A B C D E F G A as A minor - no?
sorry for bothering you still with this A minor thing...
and thanks for the advice with the "8/12 fraction"
ill have to try this
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MuckyPuh
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
86
Posted : Jun 5, 2009 19:34
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AAhhh - ok... where talking about different minor scales
havnt read your post befor posting my last one septa.... |
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MuckyPuh
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
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Posted : Jun 5, 2009 19:37
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i think your posts have answerd my question(s)
thanks a lot - and greetings from spain |
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
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Posted : Jun 5, 2009 20:40
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Yup, you're right... my bad 
Quote:
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On 2009-06-05 18:56, septa wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-06-05 18:33, Axis Mundi wrote:
This is A Minor:
A,B,C,D,E,F#,G#,A
This is C Major:
C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C
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actually, that's ascending melodic minor. he was referring to the natural minor.
to answer your question, you don't have to start your melody on the root note of your scale. in this case, the scale "emerges" after more notes or chords are added. some things will simply start to resolve or center around your root.
all this stuff is relative and heavily defendant on what comes before and after it.
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Becktrank
IsraTrance Junior Member
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537
Posted : Aug 20, 2009 21:53
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okay, here goes a very simple question about music theory, i just want to clear one thing.
I m reading a book about theory, and there is a section where the author is talking about keys and scale, and he talks about a music being in the C Major, and he also talks about being in the key of Bb Minor. Ok, no problem here, but, after reading more, the author said:
``you can go up and down scales, but you cant go up and down a key. A song can make use of a scale, but you wont see never a song designated in the key of C Pentatonic. No such key exist``
My question is, why a key of ``C Major`` or ``Bb Minor`` are right, and, according to him, a key ``C Pentatonic`` dont exist?
Arent ``C Major``; ``Bb minor`` and ``C Pentatonic`` all scales?
``We shall not cease from exploration - And the end of all our exploring - Will be to arrive where we started - And know the place for the first time.``
bahia |
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Chemogen
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 20, 2009 22:46
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Bb Minor is the same as A# Minor isn't it?
B# Minor would be C Minor right? |
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Becktrank
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Aug 20, 2009 23:39
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you`re right...
can anyone help me with my question above?
``We shall not cease from exploration - And the end of all our exploring - Will be to arrive where we started - And know the place for the first time.``
bahia |
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shellbound
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Aug 21, 2009 00:03
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honestly, this distinction is not really all that important. i'm not even sure what he means by being able to go up or down in scale or key (like... transposing a melody? or just chord changes?).
your song/melody will have a root note around which everything will be resolved, so that will determine the key (like, A, B...). your 3rd of the key has the biggest influence on how the melody/song sounds, so that will determine whether it's "major" or "minor." lastly, the scales or modes (like the church modes Phrygian, Lydian, etc) simply indicate a specific flavor. they will still be major or minor depending on the 3rd. but the different permutations of 4th, 6th, and 7th will give different flavors. they are just passing notes that might happen just a few times or the composer/performer might not adhere strictly to one specific mode (depending on the effect she is going for). so that's why the modes are not really specified or are not so important.
they are just names and conventions. don't really get hang up on this. they are all just patterns of notes that have a specific sound.
https://soundcloud.com/dead-end-dance
https://soundcloud.com/shellbound |
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