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Max/MSP, I want to make baby objects with you.
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eyist
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
20
Posted : Dec 10, 2009 20:35:06
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Hi there everybody;
I've been learning Max/MSP recently; I'm taking a short course on it... but now that i've already learned a lot it doesn't seem like the course is really necessary. =). although for some higher-level functions it definitely helps.
I'm just wondering if anybody around here uses Max/MSP for psytrance...
I know Cujo does.... also a big fan of his tunes.
Anybody else?
Anybody have some cool tips/tricks to share?
I find Max/MSP to be a freaking AMAZING program...
I might never have to buy another VST again! (also because I already bought all the good synths =).
It's also very useful to get a better understanding of "what is going on" in your music.
But the best part is being able to customize things however you want.
I just learned how to use the filtergraph object earlier today (f*cking sweet).
All analyzers go down to 0hz (which I love because I'm Obsessive-Compulsive-Attention-Deficit-Disorder-Control-Freak).
Max/MSP... i love you.....
5 year-old bullshit VSTs don't cut it anymore... lol
VB1, for example, used to be 'the shit' from what I understand (never used it)' but... learn some Max/MSP and it seems like you'll be shitting all over VB1 etc.
Now I'm gonna learn how to program a 'dope-ass graphic eq' so I can school the rest of you guyssss....
oh... and i almost forgot....
Max for Live came out a couple weeks ago.
gonna buy that pretty soon.
anybody have experience with any of this?
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Dec 10, 2009 22:40
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If you know what you are doing, go for it. I have worked rudimentarily with Max MSP in the past, it will help you to fully understand synthesizers (if you don't already.
And I have always looked for the Loadbang t shirt, but never found it...
Just keep in mind that a lot of your 5 year old bullshit vst's were probably made with Max MSP !
 Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Dec 10, 2009 23:16
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i have learned it a bit years ago,i didn t like much the sound for synths ,the strenght for me (and my music) was for glitchy stuff, i ll come back to it later but it need lot of time to invest...
btw how does it works with live?is there a comnunity growing around it ,sharing knowledge and patchs? |
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eyist
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
20
Posted : Dec 20, 2009 00:04
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thanks for the replies. i finished my three week Max/MSP course and can add some better points to my previous post.
first of all yes... i think a 'loadbang' t-shirt is a great idea.
kick drums can be made easily using MSP... but basslines are a little more tricky...
i basically got to the point where i could make a multiple waveform selectable oscillators bassline, sine, saw, square; with various adjustments..
using the little live.step object i have a step seq for basslines.
but... the waveforms are the issue....
i've been trying to learn about additive/subtractive synthesis, and how to mix waveforms together 'nicely'... but its not a simple task!
makes you appreciate some of those '5 year old bullshit VSTs' hahaha and some of the new ones that are just *sick*.
but at the end of the day.... I think I made an awesome kick synth.... huge envelope displays that let you accurately draw the envelope; filters; bitcrusher; reverb; graphic eq;... no need to fix things afterwards =)
the issue is... Max/MSP/Jitter 5 is currently the most recent version... and many many many Max 4 objects came out.. including one called paf~; which is a 'phase aligned formant synth'! but doesnt work on Max5! damn!
many of these 'external objects' are incredible... but lots of them work only on Max4... people are 'porting' them etc but its a time consuming process i guess.
what Upavas and PoM say are totally true... it will help you fully understand synthesis... and its great for glitchy stuff...
Max for Live im going to buy in a week.... and I'll let you know how that goes...
Im actually looking forward to it because I want to interface my kick/bassline synth with everything else and make some bumpin tracks =).. to see if it was worth the effort.
funny note:....
i desperately tried to find a 'formant synth/filter' for Max/MSP and finally found something (forgot what it was called); and I opened the patch to see that the main object was actually written in Csound! damn! so...
i'm essentially stuck on several points....
how to mix waveforms, effectively control harmonic content, how to make formant synth.... all this for Max/MSP...
any help advice you guys would be totally appreciated...
and if you have any other questions I might be able to answer then ask away.
i haven't noticed a huge community growing anywhere.
but i figure we are all pretty tech-savvy people at this point =), it would be way easier to do a PSY/Max/MSP community.
final note...
autopattr and bpatcher are finally my friends... very good friends..
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eyist
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
20
Posted : Dec 20, 2009 00:19
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important point i forgot to add...
the main reason im using Max/MSP is because i was hugely impressed by some higher-end softsynths that have adjustable filter env speeds (quadric, variable, etc, and formant filters...) and i was totally blown away by how fat and dope everything sounds...
so yea... and as far as Max/MSP goes.. you literally HAVE TO tell it everything... so you can have a billion different filter speeds if you want...
.. you can have the filter speed/whatever automatically link/adjust it self according to another parameter...
or... you can link compressor settings to tempo parameters =)... etc etc...
once you start to think of clever things to do then you realize how cool Max/MSP is...
and... i learned yesterday that there is a vst~ object that lets you load in a VST. haven't used it but it sounds like a good one!
synthesis techniques?
clever ideas?
inspiration?
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eyist
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
20
Posted : Dec 20, 2009 00:40
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oops...
and buffer writing/editing is basically a piece of cake. i have to figure a few things out still...
but you can essentially write a 512bit buffer waveform. you draw it with a pencil tool into the buffer editor dispay.. then you save it... and you have this 512bit waveform you can use for anything.
cool eh?
this is eventually going to find its place in my bassline synth but i have a lot of patching/trial error to do..
reading/writing to aiff/wav is easy as well. i want to eventually tempo sync the record trigger in/out so creating beat/bassline libraries will be piece of cake...
but then i think "well... isnt that what i do with my Ableton template?"...
...hm...
.... well... sort of... but when my Max/MSP 'big patch' is complete... it should be better than any ableton live template... 100% tailored to my own production techniques...
is this where Max/MSP users go 'overboard'/'nuts'?
i have to say... the only other people I know that are really good at Max/MSP are slightly loony. i totally understand how this program makes people loony...
but when you start making your own objects that have interfaces (because barely anything comes with an interface).. then you can hold on to your sanity...
i look forward to hearing anybody else experience with this program.
peace
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Dec 20, 2009 02:11
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Dec 20, 2009 15:01
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i m thinking to do my tracks in c5 like usual then export and make some very abstract/glitchy rmx in live with max and reaktor ,could be lot of fun.
check that site when you get max4live http://www.maxforlive.com/index.php it s gonna be huge ! |
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braininavat
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
233
Posted : Dec 20, 2009 19:20
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Quote:
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On 2009-12-20 00:19, eyist wrote:
so yea... and as far as Max/MSP goes.. you literally HAVE TO tell it everything...
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This is why I think max is a waste of time vs reaktor. While max can do some corny shit with midi that reaktor can't do, for actually building synths reaktor is so much easier and so much better.
The biggest difference is the amount of already made instruments and macro libraries to hack with reaktor. Reaktor would kind of suck too if you were only given the modules and had to start everything from scratch.
For formant stuff, try starting out with a saw or impulse into 4 parallel bandpass filters...you can probly hunt down charts for the frequency peaks of various vowell sounds. |
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eyist
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
20
Posted : Dec 21, 2009 00:51
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Upavas,
sure i'll post it to my server... just give me a day to make it IsraTrance-ready. =)
PoM,
hmm that sounds like it could be a good idea.
i was thinking of using Max for creating granular leads that can explode/implode like particles flying all over the place.
dont have much experience with Reaktor, even though I own it. =)
Braininavat,
good tips. i feel like an idiot for forgetting about reaktor. i own the damn thing and never use it.
i'll compare it to Max and get back to you.
and props for the formant tip. i'll try that. from my understanding formant is complicated though... but i'll see what i can accomplish with this technique.
question... the formant in Reason Maelstrom sounds great.... but this is essentially a '512bit' wave-form no? or something? i dont think the maelstrom is 'generating it'... its just reading through the index right?
maybe i could do something like this?
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whether its Reaktor or Max.... synthesis techniques come in very handy...
i havent studied DSP... so im stuck with making several different wave types... and just using good ol' amp/filter env, modulation, etc...
what about adding/subtracting harmonics, syncing wave types.... adjustable phase, etc?
is it true that if you have 3 different waves, lets say sine, saw, and sq... at the same phase... then it will sound like shit?
is phase adjustment essentially the same as 'moving one wave over a fraction of a cycle?'
like i said... i will take a look at reaktor right now... and i'll get to uploading the kick synth shortly.
thanks people...
oops.. couple more questions... like... wtf is 'hard sync'? or saw4, saw16, etc? are these multiple saws synced together to create more harmonics? maybe i am understanding this wrong.
--- for people who dont know about Max/MSP;
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=photos&ref=ts&gid=2209224391
click on the 'pictures' tab and see peoples patches. very interesting.
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eyist
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
20
Posted : Dec 21, 2009 01:25
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hmm reaktor sounds good so far. just opened up the One Osc tutorial...
just a saw with a filter... sounds much fatter than max/msps saw w/ filter.
i wonder what the deal is. |
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eyist
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
20
Posted : Dec 21, 2009 01:56
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see; if you have Jitter for Max/MSP... you can do video 'synthesis' along with your audio.. =)
reaktor is certainly geared towards synths so its dope already...
if they can throw some video synthesis in there for the future then we can do 'party synthesis'..
no one has thought of using Jitter-type video synthesis from the audio track?
all the algorithms have been written... lol.. for every program..
its just a matter of making kicks flash on the screen as weird spheres in a spiral, etc... all formulaic synthesis.
backgrounds/scenery based on keys, chords, scales, etc.. perc generates boids particles physics etc...
eventually... if one learns max/msp they could link several computers together seamlessly processing an entire orchestra of psytrance audio/video...
reaktor is a synth building program... and i can see after 1 hour that its a great synth building program..
i'll definitely use it for synths; thanks for the advice...
who is using max/msp (without doing weird non-rhythmic random-noise-based music) to do crazy things like this?
i would think it would come from the psychedelic community first...
any thoughts on this? |
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demoniac
Demoniac Insomniac
Started Topics :
85
Posts :
1281
Posted : Dec 21, 2009 05:50
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Dec 21, 2009 08:12
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Quote:
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This is why I think max is a waste of time vs reaktor.
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You can figure reaktor out very easy when you know Max Msp, but vica versa is not so easy. It is true, in Max you have to tell it absolutely everything, which is why I stopped using it. They have this thing in FL Studio now, that makes synths, I am trying and thinking of buying the full version!!!...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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braininavat
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
233
Posted : Dec 21, 2009 17:39
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Quote:
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On 2009-12-21 01:56, eyist wrote:
who is using max/msp (without doing weird non-rhythmic random-noise-based music) to do crazy things like this?
i would think it would come from the psychedelic community first...
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To me the only interesting music I've heard from max is Autechre's Confield, but that is really border line as far as random-noise-based music. Things tend to go this way with max because that is what its good at, what it is not good at is building huge lush synth sounds. Look at pluggo, the cool stuff in there is with reading a buffer, chopping the buffer and granulizing the buffer. The other more traditional effects(and especially the synths) sound like shit.
NI has put alot of time into creating nice sounding oscilators, filters, samplers..cycling has spent alot of time creating a java api to max...Its just more geared toward this audio nerd fetish for certain synth concepts than the final resulting audio.
Doing formants with bandpass filters is not really hard, its just basically subtractive synthesis. Like I've said, you can find tables of the frequencies you want to filter..If you look at the frequency charts on this page i think it makes more sense..You start with a saw, then filter away until you get the resonant formant peaks.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/music/vowel.html
The real crazy shit is from vocal tract physical modelling but there are too many parameters to control to get anything usefull in a vst like synth from what I've seen.
http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~prc/SingingSynth.html |
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