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Masterization AHHHHHHHHH
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Plasmorh
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
559
Posted : Dec 31, 2010 02:53:39
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dudes.. i like to be independent...
and i think like, if some1 can do something, then i can aswell if i work on it...
ppl send musics to masters for them to master it...
hmmm what is really needed to master a music, what to have in consideration, what are actual tricks... do they separate frequencies in group channels?
do they compress everysingle sound separatly??
hows it really reallly done????
ty and plz warn if this was talked abt b4
  I want a spare brain.... or 2. |
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
87
Posts :
2822
Posted : Dec 31, 2010 03:15
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there are some things to think about. In audio production business , at least in the work itself there are mixing engineers and mastering engineers, for a good reason. either you train your ears on mixing or mastering.
next point is, if you`ve heard your track dosens of times, you do not have the distance to it anymore like somebody who listens to the track for the first time. Ergo the mastering engineer got fresh ears on your track , wich improves the quality in the end.
what is really needed is hard to say..if your mix is perfect, then mastering is just a polishing and improving of your track. if your mix is rubbish, then the mastering guy has to solve the problems you made in mixing stage(if possible)..but cannot really do great steps but get it on an immediate level..
better send your track or a part to different mastering engineers, let them give you a promotional example back, then decide who you want to hire for mastering..jmpov..
cheers
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Dec 31, 2010 03:45
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you might wanna use compressor
you might wanna use multiband compressor
you probabaly wanna use eq
the eq might be M/S one , dynamic one , or just regular 4/6/10/30 bands depend on the need.
you might wanna use expander to change the dynamics
you might wanna use stereo width tool / stereo seperation by bands
you might wanna use enhancer to get the high freqs to shine
maybe bass booster if needed
maybe de-X some things (clicks noises etc)
probably some limiting
and dont forget that each one of those have lots of ways to use... it can help / do nothing / ruin ...
so you better know what you do , trial and error are your best friends , as well lots of different listening environments
and after all pro (psy) option isnt so expensive at all! 
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
1490
Posted : Dec 31, 2010 04:16
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Oh no.
He has said the 'M' word.
Here it goes. |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Dec 31, 2010 06:53
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Nice one Elad
And to add maybe you want to run your mix through some outboard gear to give it some warmth and other kinds of color.
Mastering is really beeing seen as a easy task nowdays in the psy scene and the task is given to people that really dont know what they are doing, and that ruins alot of tracks that could have sounded way much better if someone with more knowledge and knowhow had to do it, also the loudness trend "with no end" dont take into consideration that the mix need to be up to par with this trend, which means a very even balanced mix with not much dynamic peaks at all.
You must focus on one task, music creration/creativity takes a lot of time, and mixing as well, and to balance album and make fixes and get it nice takes a lot of time as well...
Of course you can do like most do, Maximize the hell out of tracks and cut a lot of low end to be able to do it. I dont think many uses all the tools that they have to their disposal. Like some of the tools Elad lists...
Learning all those tools and when and how to use them takes a lot of practice and a lot of reading up and understanding!
But i think finding a good mastering engineers is getting probably harder and harder in this "Mcdonalds" world
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Architekt
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
110
Posted : Dec 31, 2010 16:26
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Is it always necessary to master?
Can you get your tracks mixed well yourself, an use a spectrum analyzer to make sure you have it well balanced by using another track as a reference?
I'd like to think that I can keep all the dynamics I had when producing the track the same in the final mix. Even though it may not sound as loud and 'professional', I think the sonic experience of the sounds relative to each other is better preserved this way.
I hate it how everything sounds the same these days production wise. It doesn't need to have that same sound to be 'good'!!! Rastaliens had a good original production sound. So does Ajja.
Do any producers play un-mastered versions of their tracks out?
http://www.soundcloud.com/architektnz
http://dj.beatport.com/architektnz
http://www.facebook.com/architektpsynz |
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orgytime
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
120
Posts :
1703
Posted : Dec 31, 2010 16:49
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Quote:
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On 2010-12-31 16:26, Architekt wrote:
Is it always necessary to master?
Can you get your tracks mixed well yourself, an use a spectrum analyzer to make sure you have it well balanced by using another track as a reference?
I'd like to think that I can keep all the dynamics I had when producing the track the same in the final mix. Even though it may not sound as loud and 'professional', I think the sonic experience of the sounds relative to each other is better preserved this way.
I hate it how everything sounds the same these days production wise. It doesn't need to have that same sound to be 'good'!!! Rastaliens had a good original production sound. So does Ajja.
Do any producers play un-mastered versions of their tracks out?
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the spectrum analyzer wont give you the result you want... reference tracks are good, but use your ears to compare, not the analyzer.
i made the same mistake one time xD. compare the levels of the instruments, check the depth (reverb, delays), and so on.
if you cant achieve a thing, for example "tightnes of percussion", seek the forum/ open a thread and ask. that way you will get the fastest results imo.
you can take the analyzer, and check how pros eq instruments (if you find parts in the track where only one instrument plays for example) im sure you alrdy know what i told ya^^
cheers
www.soundcloud.com/orgytime |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Dec 31, 2010 18:03
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on a very good mix it s very hard to make it better and very easy to make it worst , i heard few times some artists telling me mastering made their tracks sounding worst thats one of the reasons many master themeslf , mastering can be overrated for the money it cost with a not very good/experienced Mastering engeinner.
imo for serious mastering first you need to make very good mix,at this point it mean your ears are well trained so you will be able to make great master with finding the best tools for the jobs and learning them inside out . maybe i m wrong to think like that but to me someone that dont make good mix can t be good at mastering.
if he can make a proper mix it mean , he lack experience and/or is monitoring environement is not good with these condition he can t do proper mastering. |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Dec 31, 2010 18:38
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Quote:
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On 2010-12-31 18:03, PoM wrote:
on a very good mix it s very hard to make it better and very easy to make it worst , i heard few times some artists telling me mastering made their tracks sounding worst thats one of the reasons many master themeslf , mastering can be overrated for the money it cost with a not very good/experienced Mastering engeinner.
imo for serious mastering first you need to make very good mix,at this point it mean your ears are well trained so you will be able to make great master with finding the best tools for the jobs and learning them inside out . maybe i m wrong to think like that but to me someone that dont make good mix can t be good at mastering.
if he can make a proper mix it mean , he lack experience and/or is monitoring environement is not good with these condition he can t do proper mastering.
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+1
also mastering is way overrated.The art is the mix.If the mix sucks there is no magic like expirienced mastering that makes the track good.
So mix is always the hardest and most important.The mastering is like chill out after deep trance.
And this is the same way to learn as a mix-by doing it again and again,noting extraordinary.
Just it is not that hard to learn as producing a well balanced mix with your ears.That needs way more of expirience imo.After this is ok mastering shouldnt be any problem,just with fresh ears is where I'd agree.Fresh ears are better.But they can change all to sth totaly different than you ever wanted.The magycks are in the mix.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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Trevon
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
376
Posted : Dec 31, 2010 19:04
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I remember to major mastering 'masterpieces'.. not going to name labels.
one album sounds like it's flattened and widen up to the sides, with nothing in the middle. bad stereo enhancer abuse 
the other one has the most punchiest mastering that I have ever listened.. looks like the sound is comming from a big P.A. on regular monitors... it's it good?
There's many differences on mastering. some end up on a very 'hard' sound.. although clear..
others make it a bit more smooth.
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vector_0
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
113
Posts :
1191
Posted : Dec 31, 2010 19:12
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i've been toying with the idea of getting my tracks mastered, but ultimately i've decided against it for a couple reasons....
first reason being that I'm not selling my tracks and mastering costs money. I think what justifies the money is the hardware that the mastering engineer owns (why bother with mastering if he's doing it all on computer?). I saw a video of this guy once who owned a mastering studio and ran the track through some hardware compressors and also recorded the track onto a tape and from the tape back onto the computer; that kind of stuff I can see as being worthwhile.
second reason i decided against it is that, in the short term, I don't really see the big deal and I don't think the casual listener really cares either. If your song is good then people will listen and enjoy; if your song is bad, no amount of technical studio wizardry will save it.
The third reason I've decided against it is that there's a lot of music out there that I LOVE which has a gritty, unpolished sound. Take for example (excuse me for leaving the trance genre) "Enter the 36 Chambers" by the Wu-Tang Clan. If you compare that album to "Wu-Tang Forever", you'll notice that its much softer in volume, the bass doesn't kick the subs the same way, and it sound just all around less professional. but for all those things i just listed, I like that album better. I can't accurately explain why, but I just do. I think if they put out a more polished version I wouldn't like it as much. sometimes gritty is good.
I do have one track of mine that was mastered (because it is being sold in online stores) and I've gotta say that the wave form looks much nicer than any of my other tracks. Its a very smooth and sleek looking wave form, whereas the unmastered tracks are a bit more choppy and rigid looking. As for how it sounds though, I think the difference is marginal and for a casual listener browsing soundcloud or something, i don't think they'd really notice or give a shit.
Just my thoughts; I'm certainly no expert in this matter
http://soundcloud.com/rob-vector |
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Trevon
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
376
Posted : Dec 31, 2010 19:19
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there's another curious fact..
one track that have been realead on the 3rd album of a certain artist: I don't like how it sounds.
but the same track has been released on a compilation on another label,and it sounds so so much better, well defined 
mastering counts.
personally, I don't feel abble to make a pro mastering of my tracks.. yet.
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Dec 31, 2010 19:30
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I'm not by any means an expert on mastering, but one of the things that I found odd about this discussion sofar is that no one has mentioned that one of the primary jobs of the mastering engineer is to fix any errors in the mix that you may have made.
Most of us bedroom/amateur producers do not have a treated room. Therefor, our mixes are going to have errors in them because we make decisions based around the room that we are mixing in and we're dealing with reflection and blah blah all that shit.
If your mastering engineer is worth the money, he will have a nicely treated space, good equipment and most important of all...good ears and experience. Sure, you can throw Ozone 4 on your master and pump the volume, throw some stereo width shit in there and call it mastered. It'll probably be louder. But it will just amplify the mistakes you have made in the mix process.
We like our music to sound good, yes? As good as possible? Then the answer is yes, you want your stuff to be mastered. However, one of the tricky things is deciding at what point do you feel your stuff is ready to be mastered...or at least when do you feel like the track is good enough that you will pay money to someone to make it better.
If you are really interested in getting some good knowledge about mastering, jump on the psymusic.co.uk forums and look for posts by Colin OOOD (Faction on that forum) - he's my favorite mastering engineer and he's posted a lot of really in depth stuff about his mastering chain and mastering in general.
Oh, and for the record...masterization? Not a word 
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Dec 31, 2010 21:29
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Mixing and mastering are separate things, when we talk about mastering we also talk about the art to balance a whole album...
I think there is "magic" in all the stages
And i would say that even if its busy mix which is not well balanced and it would be better off having another go at mixing, maybe there is not either time or money for that, or whatever it might be. In this case a serious mastering engineer can solve a lot of these problems. Not thats its the best solution, but maybe the only.
To say that mastering is not important or valuable is just foolish.
you can put a wooden frame around your piece of art or you can put a silver, but sometimes gold is what fits best, this is also a mastering engineers task, to know what is needed, is it a old recording, how is the mix, what can i do, what will make it come out/stand out... and how do i keep it inside the limits without ruin something.
If you are serious about your music you should get it masterd by a experienced mastering engineer who has the time and knowledge to do your tracks good. And this is what i meant, there are a few of them left.
A good mix will make a great master,
And of course i will agree that all steps are important and a good well-balanced mix without freq clashes and too much masking will give you the opportunity to boost and raise volume much more before distortion or any kind of over saturation will happen..
but we havent even talked about if the music is any good at all  thats the most important thing
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monno
Grapes Of Wrath
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
454
Posted : Jan 1, 2011 14:45
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This forum has more opinions on mastering than you can shake a stick at. The process of mastering is more complex than just slapping on X chain of effects. The tools used are very program dependent so it´s hard for me to lay out the perfect recipe for self mastering. As i see advice ranges from the useful to the idiotic every time someone asks about this. A good way to get yourself aqquainted with this process is to read "mastering, the art & science" by bob katz (i am sure it can be found as a pdf somewhere) this is for me my go to reference if i have any questions. Also the mastering forum @ gearslutz has some pretty heavy hitting members with more information to give than can ever be had here on that particular subject.
I started mastering myself because i only got decent masters back from one guy. The rest all changed the way my music sounded in very abrasive ways (this includes people who has done it for many years even, tho all coming from within the psytrance microcosm)
That led me to thinking i might be able to do a better job myself, and by golly i can. Even just using software....Now the softs i use cannot just be had for free so it has taken some investment to get on a comfortable level working inside the box. In the start it was only for me but i realized i am not the only one suffering from heavy handed axing of my music and started offering my services to a wider circle of people. In time some neat outboard gear may seep into my labs, but i am trying to find money for truly high-end speakers, so everything else is kind of secondary atm.
Mastering available here:
http://www.bimmelim-soundlabs.com
http://soundcloud.com/onkeldunkel
http://www.myspace.com/onkeldunkelownz
http://www.parvati-records.com |
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