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Mastering
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Lithium
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
646
Posted : Jan 5, 2005 14:07
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i think as artists get more experienced their tracks also gain more quality and they make the engeneers job easier... but i don´t think we can underextimate sound engeneers skills cause almost no artists are sound engeneers, their skills come from their sensivity about music and what they learn through the process of makin music while sound engenners might not know anything about trance but their sound knowledge comes from scientific resources, and i guess if the mastering is done by both artist and sound engenneer together them the result is much better |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
2268
Posted : Jan 5, 2005 16:36
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OK, I forgot a link about the 'loudness race', but it was a good one that explained it thuroughly. CDs pressed 15 years ago just leave headroom - tracks don't have massive peaks to them, but you can see that the average volume of the track changes from beginning to end quite a few times. Now, if you have 'modern' tracks, you see that the kick in most tracks sits at 0db. That's right, all the sounds playing side by side with the kick are making it noisier, and people saying that Dado's mastering is good... well, the last Synthetic album is so overcompressed that the hihats already sound like they were chewed up by some horrible burnt tweaters, AND THIS IS CONSIDERED A MASTERING SUCCESS.
OTT does a very good job (and again, nothing less from a guy that was trusted to handle music by The Orb, Shpongle and Sinead O'Connor), and he is hands down the best in the psytrance scene. Because he is Posford's neighbor and worked side to side with him on the Shpongle material - he knew exactly how the artists wanted the music to sound - and that's why Shpongle material sounds so different than other chillout stuff. It's not necessarily better (even though it's great), but it's definately different.
Of course, a $150000 neve deck and a veteran sound engineer go a long, long way. Check out The Matrix Reloaded, Run Lola Run and generally all soundtracks out there. The music sounds more alive, and it's not because the musicians are more talented (well, maybe than some psytrance artists, but definately not more talented than all of them). Fluke's Zion (I know, it's club music, but it's just good) is a wonderful example of the difference between just overly-compressed 'quality' production like Synthetic's album to what a natural and organic sound can give.
 http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Jan 6, 2005 03:25
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When mastering you have to consider and respect the original character or the track.
Mastering ambient should not be done in the same way as dance music and vice versa.
Ambient does not necessarily suffer from a wide dynamic range, but many types of modern music does.
Most rock for example would not sound the same without distortion wich is basically very severe limiting.
Many styles of trance especially SHOULD sound load and squashed because the artists and labels desires it to sound like that.
Sure that sqashing a sphongle track to be load as fuck would not be a great idea, but if you making full party music dynamics don't have much value compared to loudness.
In my experience people on the dancefloor sure don't seem to mind if one track sound extra louder but without distorting.
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
2268
Posted : Jan 6, 2005 13:41
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Let me rephrase myself - ubercompressed mastering works only in one place - the dancefloor. If you want dancefloor only music, GET AWAY FROM MY DEAR, PRECIOUS PSYTRANCE SCENE.
Psytrance has more value to it than just stomping on the dancefloor, but the mastering is making it harder and harder to enjoy at home. My love for psytrance started before I went to parties, because the music itself touched me in a very special way. Albums like The Art of Trance's Wildlife on One just sound so rich, and I'm not even going to start with Juno Reactor's Shango. Both those albums rock the dancefloor, but also give so much more than just that. IMO the loudness race is accepting mediocricy as a value, saying "it's ok if this music is oriented for dancefloors and not for home", which is saying "well, of course people listen to other things at home" in a more diplomatic way. http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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Zombi
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
375
Posts :
5032
Posted : Jan 6, 2005 13:51
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well, in a best situation label print 2 different editions (like GU do) one loud mastered for djs and one harmonic mastered for home listeners.. hope to have that money resources once to do same!
Believe your soul ! |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Jan 6, 2005 13:55
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Quote:
| GET AWAY FROM MY DEAR, PRECIOUS PSYTRANCE SCENE |
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YOUR psytrance scene!!!!!....LOL
It's a fact though that most trance is made primarily for the dancefloor.
Maybe you are in the wrong scene and should get away.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
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http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
2268
Posted : Jan 6, 2005 14:00
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Maybe you are in the wrong scene and should get away.
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You have no sense for figurative speech at all do you (and yes, I am willing to accept the offtopic flag for this). It is my scene just as much as it is yours (or anyone elses for that matter), and appearantly, you don't think this way at all. I phrased myself that way BECAUSE I BLOODY CARE ABOUT IT AS IF IT WAS MY OWN. English reading comprehension man.
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Jan 6, 2005 14:16
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No...your right, I did not get it.
It seemed more arrogant than figurative, maybe you have a problem expressing yourself.
I'm just saying that there is a reason that both artists and labels want the music to sound loud.
Unfortunally for you it's not your own scene and you have to suffer with the intentions of people active in the scene.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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Lithium
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
646
Posted : Jan 6, 2005 14:57
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i also agree many tracks today are way over compressed, and actually sound bad, but i guess thats a matter of taste of the artist, i still hear today tracks that don´t aim that extra volume and have that warm full sound.
but as i said i think its the taste of the artist, cause for ex. most tracks from Jorg (old tracks) also sounded way over compressed
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Borris
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
1581
Posted : Jan 6, 2005 15:21
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kaz, unfourtunatley, most psytrance is mastered for dancefloor only, the solution could have been mastering CD's for home and vinyl for dancefloor, but unfourtunatley they don't print vinyl for dancefloor anymore in trance.
Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Jan 6, 2005 15:47
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On 2005-01-06 15:21, Dr. Borris wrote:
kaz, unfourtunatley, most psytrance is mastered for dancefloor only, the solution could have been mastering CD's for home and vinyl for dancefloor, but unfourtunatley they don't print vinyl for dancefloor anymore in trance.
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But lot of people want to dj with cds.
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olivier
Side-A
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1303
Posted : Jan 6, 2005 16:57
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i really don't understand the point of 2 mastering .... no need for loud mastering, even for dancefloor, the real dynamic fat mastering would fit both dancefloor and homelistening... why would u want less dynamic and more volume on a dancefloor ??? dynamic is much more important than volume...
u can use the gain of the table if u want more volume, but u cannot give more dynamic to a track overcompressed ...
there is only need for one fat dynamic mastering.. if the mastering is good it would be as fat on your hi fi and on the dancefloor
saying that a track overcompressed is something dancefloor oriented is totally wrong, because it would sound even better on a small hi fi than on a big fat ass sound system .... if u want your sound to sound good on big speakers, u need dynamic, no volume |
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Lithium
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
646
Posted : Jan 6, 2005 17:45
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totally agree  |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Jan 6, 2005 18:51
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On 2005-01-06 13:55, Spindrift wrote:
It's a fact though that most trance is made primarily for the dancefloor.
Maybe you are in the wrong scene and should get away. |
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Maybe the scene went wrong and should figuratively take its head out from its own arse and get back to making good music that can also be danced to.
Side-A, you make a very good argument. |
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Zombi
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
375
Posts :
5032
Posted : Jan 6, 2005 19:10
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Side-A - i realy dont know shit about mastering, but im sure you will agree there is possibility to master track for best home listening and for best condition for djs ? its suppose to be like that no ? both will be very good mastered, the difference will be the right adaptation for different kind of PA that will be play the track..
so what GU do thats make 2 different kind of mastering for different kind of PA, i guess this UK sound engineers know what they do;)
Believe your soul ! |
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