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Mastering: track Compression / group Comp / master Comp
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Xamanist
Xamanist
Started Topics :
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938
Posted : Feb 3, 2005 18:30
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hi tweakers and bleepers
I'm having some troubles with the mixing and mastering of Swan X-1 tracks... maybe you guys can help me.
What's your experience about compression in the final Mix?
I rewire Reason with Nuendo 2.. and i make a track in nuendo for every track in reason to get better quality (my experiments told me so). First I would put compression @ diferent levels in every track, grouping tracks to Kick-Bass-Drums-Hats-Fx Groups, then add a little compression/EQ on each group, them overall Compression in master... is this too much? now i'm not compressing every track, just when it needs punch or less dynamic changes.. but in the overall compression i have to get treshold down to get decent final loudness (comparing with pro recordings) and get to distort some sounds a bit..
so.. simplifying all this... how do you do it???  
thanx bros
  Sérgio Xamanist
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Feb 3, 2005 19:03
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I use a little bit of compression when and if I find that some tracks demand it.
To compress things in groups can be ok for some things, like when mixing a bunch of drumsounds into a loop. But in general I stay clear of that as well.
But definatly do not put a compressor or limiter on the master out.
Record down the track as it is with no fx on the master out.
Then to make a master for listening or DJ'ing open the track in wavelab/soundforge and use your compressors or limiters there to make a "home mastered" version.
The spectral balance is also very important when it comes to percived loudness. A very common mistake is to make to bassy mixes, because it can sound nice if you have room to turn up the volume.
But when you the put the track on a CD with other tracks the more bassy track will not sound more bassy, but rather low in level and more dull if the person listening does not get up and turn up the volume when your track comes on.
By using a compressor on the main out while mixing down you will only make your track sound worse if you have a release and the track should be mastered by someone else.
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
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3239
Posted : Feb 3, 2005 22:43
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-03 19:03, Spindrift wrote:
To compress things in groups can be ok for some things, like when mixing a bunch of drumsounds into a loop. But in general I stay clear of that as well.
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For serious mixing, I wouldn't do that at all. As for drumloops, usually they are on one channel and don't require grouping.
Group compression is a nice way to play with compressor's abilities, but just playing around.
but why all this?
Let's say for instance you compress your snares and hihats together, the minute you will play either only snares or only hihats, your mix changes. Same with any other channels you're trying to 'group-compress'. I would say, every case to its own of course, if you mix a group that is going to be tied together everytime it plays - it's safer to user a compressor. Otherwise, if it isn't some effect u're trying to reach, I (and spindrift  ) would stay away from it.
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Feb 3, 2005 23:03
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basically what i meant was if you want to create something that sounds like a loop from individual sounds...but i guess in most circumstanced you would load all the sounds you need into one sampler on one channel in that case....so I agree...compressing in groups is normally very unnecessary
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Xamanist
Xamanist
Started Topics :
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Posted : Feb 4, 2005 11:34
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10x for the instructive reviews guys!
Our problem (Swan X-1) has been getting that presence and overall loudness of good mastered tracks. We used and abused compression in individual and sometimes group tracks, and we found that we were losing clarity and definition. We also do our mastering in Wavelab, after the Nuendo mixdown, but sometimes we get some sounds too loud with the use of final compression/limiting and have to re-EQ(adjust volume again in Nuendo..
But last night we cleared our ultra-VSTheavy Nuendo and Reason sessions from abusive compressors, mastering with more room and presence coming from this mix. Do you guys go light on the final compression threshold/ratio/attack/release and push things up with EQ or do you push a lot from the final comp? 10x
Sérgio Xamanist
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Lithium
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
646
Posted : Feb 4, 2005 16:15
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hi there serguei
normally you do not have to put anything on the mix channel, if all the compression in all the audio tracks are ok, then the master should be free of compression. if you think it needs a little bit, just add a limiter with the least compression as possible. sometimes i put a PSP vintage, on the master, but just to add that little bit of something in the mids.
about the drums, the ones from reason i rout them individually to cubase, and then send all of them to one group channel, using some dynamics compressor in that group channel.
stay well  |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
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1560
Posted : Feb 4, 2005 16:56
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@lithium
Please...stop it...
Do not put the vintage warmer on you main out, use it in wavelab instead after mixing.
You make the mastering engineer hate you if you get a release otherwise, or maybe even get your track rejected for a release simply because you do not have an unmastered version.
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« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
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Lithium
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
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646
Posted : Feb 4, 2005 17:46
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hi spindrift
LOL
thanx for the advice, i wont use it anymore. ´it´s a fact that the less comp. i use the better things sound to me before i used to have a L3 ultramaximyzer on the master, and i finally i understood i was makin big mistake. anyway i just used psp vintage until half song, after that this psp is very heavy and i had to turn it off to be able to finnish the song, save the psp preset, and then only aply it in soundforge
cheers |
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Xamanist
Xamanist
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
938
Posted : Feb 7, 2005 12:03
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those damn heavy presets kill my patience 
thanx guys! we're taking this knowledge to our sound forge and applying it for new fresh pumping remixes!
@ spindrift: very good advice about non-mastered version importance. 10x!
@ lithium: we also link each drum or synth sound to a Nuendo track (30-40 in total!). We use Kick&Bass, drums, hats, fx groups and now we try not to compress the groups as we like aour drums sounds to be free and wide, more organic. I'll try those vintage sounding plugins in the mastering, didn't have time yet for that. 10x mate!
In Lak'ech
Sérgio Xamanist
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soundcloud.com/xamanist |
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Kelmi
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
138
Posted : Feb 7, 2005 14:49
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Usually I only compress individual tracks if i need it! Never groups! |
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billy ambulance
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
43
Posts :
560
Posted : Feb 9, 2005 11:44
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groups is good for mastering if you want more control of the parts and dont want to use multiband compressor.
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Fingax
Cosmic Station
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
1235
Posted : Feb 9, 2005 12:43
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hi serguei
i dont compress my tracks..
only if goesfor mastering the guy knows what need to do..
my advice is to start spending some money sending your tracks to a mastering studio dont be afaraid.. hehehh that only will help you.
if you want to have a better sound quality to listen your tracks while thy're not proply mastered my advice is:....
use L2 or preference L3 in your output. adjust it acording to your hears. you'll finnd this in WAVES stuff.. i prefer to use a limiter than a compressor. compressors bad used will kill your track  if you want use in the instruments you need to but not in the all track.
you can use in the track but its not good if you dont have skills to do it..
Spindrift uses but he is an audio engeneerieng so its a bit difrent..
about you making your masters... if you want quality stuff let the pros making it.. like i do with my stuff.. if your lable like the track and want to reales it they do the mastering them selfes when the cd come out so you doint need to worry..
about your tracks listen to my advice and dont compress it or maximazit.. only if its really need ed but dont forget will take quality to your music. take it to an engenieering...
booooom my friend |
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Fingax
Cosmic Station
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
1235
Posted : Feb 9, 2005 12:45
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other thoing...
main concearn is doing a gr8 mix...
when you get a pefect mix you'll see you dont need to compress it only to master it wich is more complex than just compressors...
booooom |
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psy Li Yun
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
88
Posted : Feb 9, 2005 15:08
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ahhhhh....the black art...I think the same better final mix and less compression....I just say that cos I am no master at compression only really use is for kicks and snappy tops, find eqing frees up enough space...oooo arrg it be the black art... |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Feb 9, 2005 17:23
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Try to be carefull with compression on subtracks and group-tracks, because compression ratios multiply. If you compress your bass with a 1:8 ratio, and the mastering engineer puts a 1:2 ratio on your final track, you end up with a 1:16 (not 1:8) compression ratio on your bass. And that just sounds shitty. In electronic music you have a lot of control over the sound of your instruments, because you can use envelopes, so there is less need for compression then in music with recorded instruments. |
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