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Mastering Tips!!!
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Sektor666
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
439
Posted : Sep 23, 2004 10:49
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Tuk do you realy think that at label the one who listen to your track are group of sound engineers ??
Dj listen to your music ...the one who decide if ppl will dance it or like it .......
i do review newbies music alot and u know what
not sound design is a problem if we take 100% as releaseble material
so newbie music section goes that way
70% sound design
40% music as art
so the sound is not the weak point of musicians ....\\
but music is |
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krakho
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
12
Posted : Sep 23, 2004 12:31
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with da strong words. sector666 must be sheet hot music man.....
so where can we hear your released profesional music sector666.... always a lot of strong words from yu to many people but i never see you any where....
u can talk the talk but can you Walk the Walk?
thank u everyone to contribute your knollege fro others to learn... |
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sparkozoid
Started Topics :
2
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18
Posted : Sep 23, 2004 12:32
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Alex i think if this works for you then great but imo a good reason to get your tracks mastered by an engineer is not just for his skills but for the accoustics of the studio that will be used.
Sometimes i can spend ages trying to master my tracks in my home studio but when i hear them in a proper mastering studio they can sound a lot different, I can hear so many things i cant at home. |
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
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3239
Posted : Sep 23, 2004 12:40
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Alex... I can't agree with what you are doing - but then again, we are shaping ourselves our way.
First of all let me say that mastering is a mess and prolly much better done with dedicated mastering equipment.
Mastering your own tracks yourself is something I would do only if I need louder rms material for a PA performance.
If I send a track to the label for a master, the request is specific: "do not process the master signal in any way" - and I agree. Squeezing dynamic range and making it sound really good is not a matter of settings.
Now making it sound louder and clearer for the PA - like a 'semi-master' let's call it, is individual to each track. I don't advice on using multiband compressors (aka vintagewarmer) - they are tricky. Although it might be a good idea to use the limiter of the vintagewarmer.
For making this semi-master I advice using only EQ and a dynamic limiter such as Waves L1 or L2.
About normalising etc: I prefer to mixdown my wavfile exactly one time without any processes after. Mixdown at low levels peaks like -5dB will introduce more noise after you normalise - not so noticabe noise, so its not advicable.
The L1 should take care of the max peak levels and the rms levels.
The EQ comes before the L1, and it should emphasize those freqs that might usually be hard to hear with those regular PA setups.
And one last advice: don't squeeze dynamic range for the labels - unless the label isn't performing any pro mastering steps.
 Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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Sektor666
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
439
Posted : Sep 23, 2004 12:51
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Quote:
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On 2004-09-23 12:31, krakho wrote:
with da strong words. sector666 must be sheet hot music man.....
so where can we hear your released profesional music sector666.... always a lot of strong words from yu to many people but i never see you any where....
u can talk the talk but can you Walk the Walk?
thank u everyone to contribute your knollege fro others to learn...
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i don't know about you ,,,i think you some guy that try to avoid his name public on this forum with 12 posts in two years but .....
i say my words ...you can listen to me or him...i don't care ...i just say my opinion which can be mistaken like his...that's is
i'm critic not musician if you so intrested ... and for critic i know quite good music produciton proccess |
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GuyShanti
Aerospace
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
877
Posted : Sep 23, 2004 12:57
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Sektor666
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
439
Posted : Sep 23, 2004 13:03
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Guy ....i'm on easy.....i just think that using other ppl presets not creative and not useful for self learning proccess ....
i have nothing against Alex ...as i said he probably know why he do such settings but if others will ?
i can say that i overlimit my sounds to get natural distortion by overloading limiter settings sooooo this would help anyone ? but i like the results |
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1660
Posted : Sep 23, 2004 13:12
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I genrally agree with the Polak.
Artist should make music. Mastering engineer should master it.
Also the tips given in the head of the topic are kinda general and I would say hmmm.. not satisfying at all. I dont think that is the way to do mastering on every track, and personally I wouldn't use any of these plugs to do mastering...
Behringer Truth is awful speaker if u ask me, and making master on this one will definitely be a disaster.
But good luck anyway!
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Sep 23, 2004 14:12
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I think it's definatly nice for artists do do a master...even if not perfectly, just to be able to test and play their tracks together with mastered material.
Sure some extremly expensive mastering engineer can do miracels, but it's out of reach for trance labels to use them.
Most of the time it's artists doing the mastering for the label, and I could tell some shocking facts about the level of knowledge of some well know artists doing mastering for $500 per CD.
I don't agree with Alex advice though.
There is no hard and fast rules for mastering, and if you should try to do it anyway, to emitt issues like dithering is not very comprehensive.
I use vintage warmer sometimes when mastering....if the track don't sound warm enough...ie if the production is bad and thin.
To say that it's good on everything is not true I beleive.
For most decent tracks an EQ and maximiser is all you need.
Stereo expander is very questionable on tracks with a nice stereo image from the start. You gain stero width still, but loose punch.
Ok, so my tips:
Use a nice easy to use EQ with spectral analyzer, elemental audio systems firium or timeworks EQ.
Get used to look at good sounding material, and how the curve looks.
Sure it's nice to do it by ear, but that requires very good hearing, speakers and methodic checking of listening levels etc, so it's a good way to cheat.
Then use either the waves L2 or L3. Set them at the hi-res CD master setting to get correct dither settings, and adjust the treshold slider until your track is percived as same loudness as you reference material.
They are great, and you can actually make loader sounding masters than what you get on most CD's without artifacts, but that can overload the output on some CD players, and poeple will have to get up and turn down the output when playing your CD, so the main thing is to make it same level as well mastered releases.
Basically, most of the time, good mastering work is not about magic sounding plugins, but excellent EQ.
But until you have real mastering engineers, make a copy for listening and playing that is at least maximised to be full level and dithered down to 16bit.
AND DONT PUT PLUGINS ON THE MASTER OUT...it will make any mastering engineer pissed off if you get it mastered by a pro.
A new limiter will need to be applied after EQ'ing anyway, so it will only make your track sound worse in the end. |
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Sektor666
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
439
Posted : Sep 23, 2004 14:16
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Quote:
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On 2004-09-23 14:12, Spindrift wrote:
Ok, so my tips:
Use a nice easy to use EQ with spectral analyzer, elemental audio systems firium or timeworks EQ.
Get used to look at good sounding material, and how the curve looks.
Sure it's nice to do it by ear, but that requires very good hearing, speakers and methodic checking of listening levels etc, so it's a good way to cheat.
Then use either the waves L2 or L3. Set them at the hi-res CD master setting to get correct dither settings, and adjust the treshold slider until your track is percived as same loudness as you reference material.
They are great, and you can actually make loader sounding masters than what you get on most CD's without artifacts, but that can overload the output on some CD players, and poeple will have to get up and turn down the output when playing your CD, so the main thing is to make it same level as well mastered releases.
Basically, most of the time, good mastering work is not about magic sounding plugins, but excellent EQ.
But until you have real mastering engineers, make a copy for listening and playing that is at least maximised to be full level and dithered down to 16bit.
AND DONT PUT PLUGINS ON THE MASTER OUT...it will make any mastering engineer pissed off if you get it mastered by a pro.
A new limiter will need to be applied after EQ'ing anyway, so it will only make your track sound worse in the end.
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this is much close to reality ......
just to add you can put any plugin you want on master out but not limiters(compressor,peak detect,psp packs)on it ....if your output is higher than 0dB so push the volume down that's all |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Sep 23, 2004 14:27
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Forgot one thing:
Easiest way to check when mastering is complete if you have ok spectral balance is windows media player.
One of the visiualisations is a spectral analyzer.
There you don't have to learn to recognise any curve, you basically want a straight line.
Not very precise, but to get an idea if it actually is to bassy, to less mid etc it great, you will see right away. |
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Eduardo
Tactical Strike
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
53
Posted : Sep 23, 2004 14:55
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I agree with spindrift....
for SURE if u sell a track to a label u will have to send as it is (meaning no compressor, limiters, whatever) in the output...
Though i strongly recommend that if u are gonna play your music on the parties do as spindrift said.
After your mix is 100% perfect (as possible), EQ the wave of the track and add a limiter to it. L3 from waves do the work very effectivly and also for logic users try Ad limiter.
And remember this has no "magical presets" or magical tools to be done. Its basically trusting your ears and knowledge. As spindrift said (again) compare your material to the released material u like. (though i would recommend to compare it with gms, astrix, eskimo, exaile... or anything u know for sure its a PA destroyer  )
Alex nobody here is trying to say "oh this guy is wrong listen to me i know much more". This section of isra forum is very nice, i dont see much ego bullshit here... so dont take it personally man.
Many people read this section and take what is written here for granted. Im sure everybody that posted against u was concerned that your post could "harm" the other readers.
Anyway ur welcome to post anytime u want.
Cheers
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Alex Roudos
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
411
Posted : Sep 23, 2004 19:37
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Hi to all,
It seems like i started some kind of war here. But my point was very simple. The title of my post was "Mastering Tips" and not "How to get the perfect mastering using software plugins". I wanted just to let you know of a plug ins chain that works at least effeciently, and been confirmed from other producers(friends of mine and friends of theirs) that produce different styles of music. The settings i mentioned are MY PERSONAL SETTINGS from which i start. It doesn't mean that anyone should follow what i say with his eyes closed. Just giving another direction.
Regarding the labels of course they want pure unedited mixdowns in order to master them. I agree, but most small independent labels and even bigger ones don't offer mastering production even if they sign you. So the cost will be on you.
Regarding the sound engineers, again i agree that they are here for a specific reason which is to make our music sound the best, and i don't say to do their job when there's no reason for it. But what happens when we don't have the ability to hire a sound engineer or go to a pro studio for mastering.
And again when it comes to my music i'd never trust blindly any sound engineer in the world to master my music without me being present. But my presence would be useless if i didn't have at least some basic knowledge about what mastering is.
Hardware is the only solution for true mastering. Software is for everyone else who can't afford buying the specific hardware.
And finally about the Behringer's. Why are u so against them? Did u use them for long and realized they suck? Or Just listened to them once or twice and decided that they suck? Or even worse did you just read previews and posts of others and decided that they suck?
When i first bought them i was afraid that they were not going to be good at all. But i was very pleasantly surprised after i made my first "Mastering or whatever you want to call it" and played the track in a club. It was sounding just perfect.
And a final question about this issue. If the Behringers are awfull then the NS10's from Yamaha what they were? |
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
Posts :
3239
Posted : Sep 23, 2004 19:55
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Alex mate,
there is no war really
Once you post something, a few of us might disagree with few things - that's all.
I don't have anything to say about behringers, but most important thing is that you enjoy them.
as I said, I believe that semi-mastering... or software homestudio mastering is a great solution for PA systems outdoors or clubs - but not good for a high quality CD release.
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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Input
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
24
Posts :
456
Posted : Sep 23, 2004 20:24
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