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Mastering- good and badly mastered albums? do you really want it loud?
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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187
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5292
Posted : Apr 22, 2011 14:13
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Mastered it in Logic, no special signal chain (explained in the comment on soundcloud clip), used the Sonnox EQ, Oxford Inflator and Oxford Limiter.
I know the difference in loudness does not help, but it sounds the same as the original clip, with slightly less subs, slightly more top end without getting fizzy, and slightly less mids.
Its not brilliant mastering, as in it just sounds like the unmastered mix, but loud.
I tried to get the mix sound to the best of my ability at the time and I know it sounds fine when playing out...although I am on stage I can get enough information from the monitors and the sound coming out from the P.A....+ I have actually heard our tunes compared to stuff from the likes of Etnica, Synthetic, Kox Box when we were flashing out the P.A. at the Swiss Earthdance festival a day before the party and I got to walk around the room and listen carefully. Its one of them chances I was really lucky to have, being new at this psy-trance business.
Peace out.
 
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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orgytime
IsraTrance Full Member
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120
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1703
Posted : Apr 22, 2011 17:45
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this should be no offence dh,
its just a basic rule i use, to not get blinded by loudness if i add compression, limiter, eq ...
but there are more things to mastering then just gettig the volume up right? i mean mastering should polish a mix right?
www.soundcloud.com/orgytime |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
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5292
Posted : Apr 22, 2011 17:59
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There's masters that are louder than mine, I did not overdo it.
Yes there is more to mastering than just getting the volume up, and as you say, polishing a mix is getting it to sound, clean, phat, defined...etc. This I did to the best of my ability in the mix stage and did a very gentle EQ process to add some "air" to the tracks, high-passed the subs that were not needed and very slightly dropped the mids.
I must stress that I am not a mastering engineer, I only did this on our own tracks to play them out and the label thought they were sounding just fine for release. I don't take up mastering other people's tracks where there might be a lot more required than the simple process I went through for our tracks.
I mean, I know Colin will give advice on the mixes and I am sure it must require a lot of patience, something I do not have, as I am far too busy writing and producing our own music, let alone mastering it.
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Upavas
Upavas
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150
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Posted : Apr 22, 2011 23:08
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One thing that amazed me was how loud Colin managed to get the trax, without the unwanted effects of overcompression, it still has that dynamic depth, that uuumpht, there is also stuff like x crackling and more they do, one possibility I have recently discussed with friends is to take the mix and run it through a good mic preamp, supposed to make it better, not sure how.
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 23, 2011 02:22
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it can give a more polished sound and more weight on sources ( by driving the transformer output with the gain, you have to pad and get the signal to the right impedance if needed) but wouldn t use this on mastering ( a friend use one on his bass, it round the transients in a very musical way and give some weight) but maybe it could work with the right preamp, everything neve style might be too colored,i guess a api a2d could deliver for this aplication but it cost much $$$$ just for using it for this, dont worht it imo , i would rather get their comp  i use one of their eq once, it sounded good too. i think api seems really well suited cause its fast and give a little mojo that respect the signal. |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 23, 2011 03:31
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its quite solid for -8db rms cannot hear any overcompression.Yes its loud and it works outside as Nectarios mention eventhough the chain has only very few plug ins.
ABout polishing and making it even better its at some point about good gear analog good compressors good converters and good preamps. Atleast one expensive comp like Toft for example can make wonders.I know it from everyday experiments in my studies.The difference is a shock.
Sonnox than is very transparent..So it is natural that it sounds pretty close to this brilliant mix.
Sure lots of great virtual plug ins can do wonders too,but I doubt any combination can be as blasting as an ssl console with great converters and external comps,eqs for instance.This shit is so expensive I gues I personaly will never make it to affort stuff like this.Just enjoying my study time.
As for mastering in the box,I think many selected comps with little settings can be an interesting way too.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 23, 2011 03:47
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it can be overpriced when you compare to what you can get with plugins ! offcourse it worth it if it improve the sound and get us closer to what we are after.but sound is so subjective that you always find someone that will like more a itb mix vs one summed and eqed into a great analog desk. |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 23, 2011 04:40
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Quote:
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On 2011-04-23 03:47, PoM wrote:
it can be overpriced when you compare to what you can get with plugins ! offcourse it worth it if it improve the sound and get us closer to what we are after.but sound is so subjective that you always find someone that will like more a itb mix vs one summed and eqed into a great analog desk.
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+1 agreed.Its definetly overpriced.Nevertheless its very good.A big desk or a good desk is always overpriced.Unfortunately it always was like this, only for those who already got that big amount of cash  But even only one good external comp (that is still for guys like me only a dream) could be a golden invest someday if only for bouncing groups and for the sum in combination with a great plug in action on the master faders. https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Apr 23, 2011 13:07
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I don't think there was ever any doubt that using high end hardware and multiple I/O soundcards to spread out mixes on, say an SSL, and do the mixing there, would get you much better results. I wish I had that kind of cash...oh well...one day eh?
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 23, 2011 15:45
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Quote:
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On 2011-04-23 04:40, TimeTraveller wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-04-23 03:47, PoM wrote:
it can be overpriced when you compare to what you can get with plugins ! offcourse it worth it if it improve the sound and get us closer to what we are after.but sound is so subjective that you always find someone that will like more a itb mix vs one summed and eqed into a great analog desk.
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+1 agreed.Its definetly overpriced.Nevertheless its very good.A big desk or a good desk is always overpriced.Unfortunately it always was like this, only for those who already got that big amount of cash But even only one good external comp (that is still for guys like me only a dream) could be a golden invest someday if only for bouncing groups and for the sum in combination with a great plug in action on the master faders.
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yes agree it s very expensive ,a alternative is to go used with less hyped gears ,there is loads of secret weapons that you can find for not much. for example you can find some racked chanel of amazing desk for cheap with the eq preamp..problem with the vintage stuff it might need repare.
some say it s too expensive and plugins can give great result but personaly i m more into "iron" ,the sound of the great river preamp,it can go from clean to really saturated,sound is dense, big sounding preamp with attidude and give space,damn sometimes i m think just to get a mono to run my bass into it. |
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Geneticseed
Started Topics :
0
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14
Posted : Apr 23, 2011 20:41
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...well i think Tim Schuldt and 4cnstudios are one of the cleanest sounds out there...just my opinion. |
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monno
Grapes Of Wrath
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9
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454
Posted : Apr 24, 2011 12:33
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Having personal experience with sourcing and pricing components for quality projects i can tell you that one switch selector on a piece of mastering gear can easily cost between 30-50 dollars (for the switch not the work needed to make it a resistor ladder for use in stepped controls) More often than not the topology chosen is done using discrete mil spec components which add time and complexity (and again cost) because of matching components up against their ideal properties. Without exception all this stuff is designed and hand built in countries where salaries are traditionally high which again adds to the cost. Secondly a top end mastering engineer rakes in some serious dough on projects and not the measly 3-400 Euro that seems to be the going rate in this scene. Making money on your gear means it becomes a much more worthwhile investment, and when we are talking 1-2000 euro per album and one album per day then it makes sense for this type of gear to cater to this segment.
Personally for me a good mastered album is when the process becomes invisible and does not add anything to alter the artists vision significantly.
Now without a proper level matched A/B test between mastered version and the un mastered it is in fact impossible to say if the master added anything significant.
I do see a tendency overall in many mastered tracks to boost the living daylights out of the 10khz range, which does really not do any favors to this kind of music at all. (I like my action to be in a range that does not make my ears bleed) My benchmark these days i guess would be a track that you can play absurdly loud on a PA without cutting off people´s heads in the process, the rest is all in the mix. (hint: improve the mix = improve soundquality)
Mastering available here:
http://www.bimmelim-soundlabs.com
http://soundcloud.com/onkeldunkel
http://www.myspace.com/onkeldunkelownz
http://www.parvati-records.com |
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Enertopia
Enertopia
Started Topics :
99
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676
Posted : Apr 24, 2011 23:15
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I hope people enjoy the mastering I have been doing for Warp Brain Recs.
Would like to hear some warm comments about it 
Also, PM me for mastering options if needed.
www.myspace.com/enertopiapsy |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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8087
Posted : Apr 24, 2011 23:40
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these day with way too much mastering engeineers and not much sales even some mastering studio charge around 400/500/600 euros a album, and it s possible to negociate price, it s still better to get 400 euro for 1 day of work than nothing,i was looking at it closely cause my plan is to make more mastering in the futur and waht is surprising, is amateurs almost ask for the same amount of money than guys with sontec ,b&w... i was thinking to ask 40 or 50 euros by track and then i see guys with full rack and great room asking for the same lol , hard times... |
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