*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 27, 2010 09:57:31
i've noticed that many psy-tunes start very obscure and there is almost non, or no way to detect the beat in the intro.
Since the music I write might be only for the party dance floor scene.
Is it appropriate to compose intros and outros that is DJ friendly?
DO you guys do it?
I was thinking of letting a lead riff, or beat, continue after the end so a DJ can make it flow nicely into the next tune.
ohshit
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 27, 2010 10:04
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 27, 2010 10:17
yeah, i know.
but what about convenience ?
ohshit
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 27, 2010 10:29
is really hard for me to give you an answer 'cause if on one side is obvious that when i am mixing a song that start with a four on the floor pattern makes my life easier, on the other side some other songs that begins with an intro are able to create a particular atmosphere. So, at the end, i need and enjoy both! http://soundcloud.com/alphadelphi
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 27, 2010 11:06
"four on the floor" funny idiom.
i know what you mean tho.
my concern is with the outro. to follow into that obscure intro. for the DJ and for crowd waiting. a soft beat. a flowing riff. something
geekhorde
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 27, 2010 15:15
There's other techniques though. You can use atmospheric, ambientish sections to crossfade. Or you can drop a track in right after a transition/sting/pause/whatever.
Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Mar 27, 2010 15:46
I almost always do something with a beat in the intro and almost always have some synth sound delayed out in the outro. Its simply a matter of making tunes fun to mix in a set, and the trance stuff I write, is oriented for the dancefloor, where (for me) its always about mixing tunes on the beat, be that on some breakbeat that plays at the beginning, some percussion loop, or simply mixing on the kick.
But that is because I like beatmixing tunes 99% of the time and will only include some really exceptional intro, at sparse points to let the dancefloor get a breather and slightly change the mood of the set.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 28, 2010 10:15
yeah disco,
thats what i'm talking about. to make it convenient to DJ.
good to know you take it into consideration when composing.
Dharma Lab
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Posted : Mar 30, 2010 02:56
I wouldn't waste time thinking about it. Put it in if you want, but even with a vinyl record it's not too difficult for a DJ to forward to the first beat of a song, get the BPM, beatmix it, jump back to the intro, and see if the intro structure will fit. With a CD or laptop, it's even easier in my opinion.
Since moving to a laptop several year ago, I can slice & dice a song on the fly, remix however I feel, and keep things in time (without software sync), and suspect many other people do as well. So I can take an off-time intro & have it play as long or as short as I want, or play several bars of beats before jumping back to the into, or maybe i won't even play the intro at all.
I would suggest focusing on what the song needs, not what the DJ needs.
Keep The Faith,
Christian K.
Psynaesthesian
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 30, 2010 12:27
i heard somewhere that the more DJ friendly your track is, the more chances of it getting played more often.
i however don't know how correct this is statistically!
"... b'om ..."
Sanathana
Sanathana
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Posted : Mar 30, 2010 12:37
I think it all depends on what the producer has in mind while production.... if he makes tunes that are dancefloor friendly and wants his tunes to be exclusively played at party's and gatherings then YES the intro to some extent needs to be in line with the tempo / BPM of the track but not necessarily....
Most dj's I know dont mix tunes with the intro in it anyways. They wait till the first lift or crash OR beat match the tune after the intro... if this is the case then the intro doesnt necessarily matter whether it is to the right BPM / Tempo of the track
Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 30, 2010 13:05
I like to mix in such a way that it becomes unclear where one track ends and another track begins. This means long, gradual mixing (usually a *minimum* of 64 bars).
A lot of psytrance tracks don't really make this easy, because after the first 16 bars or so, it jumps right into the "meat" of the track. Two tracks mixed together with both of their lead parts going at full strength sounds like craziness! Even worse with darkpsy because lots of producers love to add extra bars or weird breaks right in the beginning of the track (Polyphonia, I'm looking at you!)
The best way to think about your DJ intros and outros is that they are "tastes" of the track--they should only contain sounds which are also present in the rest of the track. They are not "really" part of the song at all.
So if your ambient intro is very creative and good and you are proud of it, you should put some beats BEFORE that intro, so that it gets heard on the dance floor!
Here's an example of a track with a very good DJ intro, in my opinion:
The very beginning, although lacking beats, is perfectly rhythmic enough that you can easily mix with it (the only flaw is that it is 4 bars short of a power of two).
Once the bass comes in, the sounds over it are very light, and leave lots of room for the previous track to be layered over
At about 2 minutes in, the REAL intro starts. This is where I would start the track off if it were beginning the set.
So basically, what I'm saying is: Make your song a finished product first, and then tack the DJ intro/outros on to the beginning and end. The intro/outros are like the first and last paragraphs of an essay, they both summarize the "body" of the work
Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 30, 2010 13:35
Another way you can make your track more easy to mix is by making sure the beginning and end of your track have multiple spots where the bass drops out for a bar or so. This makes it really easy to do really smooth-sounding bass switches, and it really sounds like the two tracks are made for each other when you pull it off.
So for example, the first track has a spot near the end, where the bass drops out for 1 bar near the end of a phrase, and the second track has a similar spot near the beginning
You program the mix so that those two bass drops happen simultaneously, and you switch the bass knobs while the bass is out. This results in a really really tight mix.
Here's an example: http://shiranui.lt3m.com/filltransition.mp3
Another thing that I like to do is to sync up the very last beat of one track with the first breakdown of the other track. This again sounds very very smooth, as if the tracks were made for each other.
It's very nice to do BOTH of these things (it sounds amazingly perfect), but sometimes the tracks make it impossible.
I know that it's artistically bad to follow rules, but don't think of the intro and outro as part of the song at all. They are like a "thumbnail" so to speak.
Cardinals Cartel
Black Machine
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Posted : Apr 1, 2010 02:27
I like intro's and outro's .. 10 , 15 , 20 Sec , I think is realy cool . Must say the truth but at the time when im working on my projects i dont realy think of dj's and that , Its not even past in my mind im totaly inside the music i creat . I think when artists get in to a track this is the last thing they will think of , Only if he made it for his set (I have more then 8 hours of my new music , What i made , So some time its good for me but i dont thinking of it when i made the track) .
It doesn't really matter to me weather there is any kind of ambient style thematic "intro" to a track. But I do appreciate it when a producer puts 16 or 32 bars of a very minimal part of the track as the first few phrases.
It is also nice if they bring up the energy of the track to go pow! on one of those boundaries so that when I swap songs, something interesting and energetic will happen immediately.
So yeah it's nice if the producer is thinking about a DJ, but honestly it is also the DJ's job to figure this stuff out, so if he really likes a track and wants to play it, he will figure it out.
The fact is though, the easier it is to figure out what is going on at the beginning and end of your track, the more likely someone will play it.
