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mac ... intel or ppc64 ?
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bilbobagginz
Started Topics :
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399
Posted : May 24, 2007 03:49
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hi guys!
long time no see...thinking about putting up my studio. Let's start with the computer. The machine shall be a mac, hmm accidentally I've touched a Mac, and now I am cursed  .
The Q. is: intel or ppc ?
PowerPC:
+ FAT Front Side Bus 1.25GHz/CPU
+ G5 (PPC64) CPU, good for audio, upto 4 of these
+ Lots of RAM can be put (16G)
+ can be gotten at low price (discontinued)
- quite old = maybe troubles
- "only" 2.5GHz CPUs are avail
Intel:
+ new shiny can have upto 8 cpus
+ lots of RAM
+ lots of GHz per CPU
- expensive!!!
- thin memory-cpu bus, only 667MHz
Please give me some input ....don't get into mac vs. pc, it's for another thread.
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
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3239
Posted : May 24, 2007 08:07
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not mac vs pc, but maybe intel vs ppc?
intel is the new way of apple, so go for it.
 Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
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Posted : May 24, 2007 09:23
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Intel are WAY faster then the old ppc. not a difficult choice.
PPC have a 1.25ghz FSB, i don't know the memory speed
Intel have 1.033ghz FSB, and 667 memoryspeed, which is completely normal these days.
You can't compare in ghz anyways since the CPU structures have changed.
intel core2duo 1.8 ghz are faster than intel P4 dual core 3ghz. etc.
PowerPC are nowhere in that business anymore.
BTW, I have macOs installed on a custom built PC, cheapest way to get MacOS.
http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Installation_Guides
good luck.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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the daleks
The Daleks
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Posted : May 24, 2007 10:45
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I would agree to go for the Intel since it is the way looking forward, plus if you get a tower, its now scalable i.e. you can upgrade the processor on the same motherboard, i.e. start with a dual core, and move up to an 8 core as your needs develop
one thing about the RAM though, you can put as much in as you want but the OS can only allocate up to 4gb at the moment. this will change when the 64bit tiger comes out
however, as much as I like you subconsciousmind, I have to disagree with you on a few points
1) Intel is not faster, I have both a PPC quad, and a Macbook Pro, and I tend to think that the PPC is a faster and perhaps a little smoother. theres been alot of comparison tests on the Logic discussion, and it was found that a Quad PPC was actually faster and could carry more load than the MacPro Quad. however Apple did release tests that the MacPro was x times faster, but it was found the test was skewed and actually compared a Dual PPC and a MacPro Quad, or something absurd like that. at any rate the difference isnt that much
2) I wouldnt recommend x86. the kernel hasn't been updated since 10.3.4 (when they finished development of the UB) so its really a crippled system. that plus installing updates is a pain, and your likely to hose your system each time. also, I believe the update packages are dependent on hackers, so you don't really know what you are getting, not to mention its not legal
one final consideration in regards to Intel vs PPC is plugins, but if you are new to the game, it shouldnt matter that much, as they are coming out with more UB versions every day
peace!
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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Allegoric - Psynce
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
61
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1453
Posted : May 24, 2007 12:56
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yea i have intel core 2 duo mac book pro and i'm very very happy with the performance... 
btw old ppc is not available anymore and the new softwares are made according to intel machines i have seen some of the ppc softwares don't work on intel macs
and the new softwares will be made for intel !!!
you can get second hand ppc though but go for a new intel machine it's way too fast 
Truth will always guard our souls......
http://www.myspace.com/allegoricpsynce |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
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1033
Posted : May 24, 2007 14:10
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however, as much as I like you subconsciousmind, I have to disagree with you on a few points
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1) Intel is not faster, I have both a PPC quad, and a Macbook Pro, and I tend to think that the PPC is a faster and perhaps a little smoother. theres been alot of comparison tests on the Logic discussion, and it was found that a Quad PPC was actually faster and could carry more load than the MacPro Quad. however Apple did release tests that the MacPro was x times faster, but it was found the test was skewed and actually compared a Dual PPC and a MacPro Quad, or something absurd like that. at any rate the difference isnt that much
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It makes sense that a quad is faster than your macbook pro. Since it has more cores after all.
I didn't hear about those tests though. So I didn't know. What exactly has been compared? dual xeon dual core to powerpc dual dual core at same frequencies?
But the things with the screwed tests makes sense, since apple was always good in making somehow "bizarre" comparisons to prove their supremness.
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2) I wouldnt recommend x86. the kernel hasn't been updated since 10.3.4 (when they finished development of the UB) so its really a crippled system. that plus installing updates is a pain, and your likely to hose your system each time. also, I believe the update packages are dependent on hackers, so you don't really know what you are getting, not to mention its not legal
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You're definitly right about the fact, that its not to recommend. It's much more a cheap freak solution. I have it running here with a 10.4.8 kernel and I know there are people with 10.4.9.. but as you say its all illegal if you are not a developer and it's not sure how long it will be going.
offtopic:
But my guess is, that Apple actualy wants this to happen, since the only reason for windows world rulership is the fact that all the earlier windows version had almost zero copy protection even though there were already elaborate copyprotections invented then. MacOS being able to run on PCs will help them to spread, I think bottomline, even though they are unlike microsoft more a hardware company they will gain in the end, since all who buy apple now will always do, and some people who get addicted over running macos on pc will get a "real" mac sooner or later.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
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1448
Posted : May 24, 2007 15:41
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On 2007-05-24 10:45, the daleks wrote:
this will change when the 64bit tiger comes out
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Incredible that Apple were touting the G5 as the first 64 bit computers available to the general public. (Which wasn't true as AMD Opterons were allready available when the G5 came out).
Anyway, I think it is a bad idea to get a PPC Mac today unless it is really really cheap. Intel Macs will keep up with the software much longer and are more flexible as they can also run Windows if you would ever need to use a Windows DAW or tools.
UnderTow |
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the daleks
The Daleks
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34
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584
Posted : May 25, 2007 06:49
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Incredible that Apple were touting the G5 as the first 64 bit computers available to the general public. (Which wasn't true as AMD Opterons were allready available when the G5 came out).
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true that. it is a 64-bit chip, as is the CoreDuo2(beware the early Macbooks have the CoreDuo which is not 64bit, so if you get one used as my friend may be unhappy), but still waiting for the 64-bit OS, waiting...waiting...
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It makes sense that a quad is faster than your macbook pro. Since it has more cores after all.
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I didnt mean to negate the obivious, but meant actual speed. The introduction of more cores does not increase speed per se, but rather load, and the amount of data/instructions processed at a given time.
For example, when rendering 3d animation, or some other huge computational task, the work is devided between each core, but each 'chunk' of data can only be processed at the maximum speed of the core it is being processed on, or in other words 4 or 8 cores at 2ghz run at the same speed as one core at 2ghz, but with more cores you the machine can process the same amount of data faster since it is tasking the work out to each core
a good way to measure actual speed is the amount of time it takes to load the OS, as I am pretty sure that this only occurs on one core until the OS loads. A 2.5PPC loads almost instantaneously, while a 2.33Core Duo takes slightly longer - this is what I meant.
in the end the difference isn't that much, and Apple has done a pretty good job of keeping the whole process transparent, whether PPC or Intel. Still going forward I would go with the newer version, as I think even the Intel chips are cheaper than the the Motorala(PPC) chips which is why the Macbook Pro is 30% cheaper than a PPC Powerbook 3 years ago. You could maybe get a used PPC computer for a little cheaper, but unless it is a way cheap Quad, the Intel way just makes more sense
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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the daleks
The Daleks
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Posted : May 25, 2007 06:56
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>subcounsciousmind
that is pretty impressive you got it to work. I tried installing it on an IBM x60, but it kept giving system errors. maybe something to do with the laptop hardware.. also the last time I tried it was half a year ago, and thats when I read about the kernel not being updated
As you said, I think Apple is definitely poised to take over, but also have a feeling that this is not their goal i.e. they want to stay on the premium side, and will not easily give up the link that they have with the hardware. The Apogee/Logic8 rumors tend to support this.. still interesting to see what happens though. BTW, what do you run on OSx86?
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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subconsciousmind
SCM
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Posted : May 25, 2007 10:56
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-the daleks
Actualy the real impressive works did the guys in the forum here:
http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php
I was lucky since my motherboard has been used from others there (asus p5b800deluxe). In the end it was generaly about the right bios tweaks, and download the righ "jas" imjage which already had the drivers included for the intel chipset I use.
After that it was a regular macos installation. To use dual screen I had to install one more patch afterwords.. simple if you find out how...
I'm originaly a PC user, so I have an original cubase 4, which I also run on the mac partition. since i have virusti, uad and liquidmix I come along well without many other vsts, but still I really miss voxengo and some stuff I have ahmm "free" but also some REALLY free stuff. I have almost completely moved to only originals by now, so it could come that I move to mac sooner or later, since it just "feels" a little more stable and tight to me.
But as soon as I have all apps and drivers for vista I will try this out first.. maybe I'll change my mind then... there is a partition ready for it here.
I did some performance comparison, its about the same.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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bilbobagginz
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
399
Posted : May 25, 2007 21:15
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Quote:
| Incredible that Apple were touting the G5 as the first 64 bit computers available to the general public. (Which wasn't true as AMD Opterons were allready available when the G5 came out).
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PowerMac G5 was the 1st brand deesktop computer with 64bit processor. it is true.
AMD Opteron was released in April 2003, as new model of CPU. for that time no brand released a computer with it. you could buy a motherboard, cpu and the rest, and build up your own hand made machine. the same stood for G5 CPU, and it was avail far before April 2003.
guys, let's avoid politics and stick to technical perspective:
1. what is the memory speed of PPC64 machines ?
2. Is any "end of life" for ppc based Apple products announcement available ?
As to "hackintosh" ... I won't try it, I have seen many people having problems running it, if not during the installation, then during the usage.
I did a comparison about how much money goes into the PC hardware. this comparison took into account 12 years of my usage. and it came out: If u buy a non brand computer, you spend more money on it eventually ( cause you're always upgrading something, then something f*cks up and you replace it )
So, comparison is:
non-brand PC > brand PC ( non brand is more expensive )
brand PC ~ Mac ( means same pricing )
and if you compare brand PC vs. Mac it is the same pricing. In Israel it is a bit more, but if you compare spec for spec, you get the same thing.
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
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1448
Posted : May 25, 2007 22:40
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On 2007-05-25 21:15, bilbobagginz wrote:
the same stood for G5 CPU, and it was avail far before April 2003.
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Yeah but the Mac G5 was available from June 2003. I don't know when the first brand machines with Opterons were available but that is really splitting hairs.
Anyway, the OS still isn't 64 bit...
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I did a comparison about how much money goes into the PC hardware. this comparison took into account 12 years of my usage. and it came out: If u buy a non brand computer, you spend more money on it eventually ( cause you're always upgrading something, then something f*cks up and you replace it )
So, comparison is:
non-brand PC > brand PC ( non brand is more expensive )
brand PC ~ Mac ( means same pricing )
and if you compare brand PC vs. Mac it is the same pricing. In Israel it is a bit more, but if you compare spec for spec, you get the same thing.
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I thought you wanted to avoid politics. The question is about Intel Macs vs PPC Macs. I recommend an Intel Mac.
UnderTow |
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the daleks
The Daleks
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Posted : May 28, 2007 10:51
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memory speed for the PPC G5 is PC2-4200 / 533Mhz
i think it is the same for Intel
I don't think Apple issued any specific end of life statement, but for hardware it is generally accepted as 5 years, so from the last g5 in 2005, should be up until 2010
if you see a good deal on a used G5, and the price is right, I would grab it, since there is not much of a difference. If you are buying new, go with the Intel. I think thats the best advice I can give
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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bilbobagginz
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
399
Posted : May 31, 2007 14:11
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guys, I have rethought about this, 1st of all even today we can buy a 800MHz RAM, with a propper support of FSB in Core 2 Duo processors, so ... it's definetely intel Mac.
so, 800 vs. 1.5GHz is not as much as 400Hz vs. 1.5GHz
and the most important, soon most of the softwares won't be optimized for PPC, nor for PPC64.
Thanks for the discussion and enlightenment!
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