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"Live" Psy trance

vikuna29
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  10
Posts :  80
Posted : Nov 6, 2003 21:34
Why was the one about GMS and their millions locked?? I think it has very valuable discussion and should be continued....

here is my take on it..

I believe the most comprehensive analysis of this argument has come from vertigoa... he said a very true and seemingly overlooked truth .. this is not a live orchestra, where they play EACH AND EVERY SINGLE NOTE LIVE!!! this is a group of elctronic samples for which the producer or artist makes his interpretation of these sounds....

Elysium has a point, in the traditional sense psy trance is not "live".. but have you considered that it nearly impossible to have it played live simply because of the nature of it??

This brings along a much more interesting question that i think not many people have discussed, which is having an orchestra of musicians playing psychedlic trance, "each and every note live"... this sounds like a real "live "performance, dont you think elysium??? i definitely think so..... wither way, by definition, in the olden days, these instruments that we have now which are available to arpegiate, loop, replay, and automate each and every controller of sound, were clearly not available... thus the orchestra in itself is defined by its own nature... concurrently, psychedelic trance live acts are defined by their nature, and that stems from their elemets of creation, namely the electronic instruments that have all these capabilities....

I agree that most people, but not an overwhelming majority, who go to the psy trance parties expect something else than what they get... Of course, the second and third and fourth time they go, they know what they are getting.... That's the way I felt when I saw alien project "live" in NY for a tsunami party... All this equipment lined up and really what was playing were two tracks beautifully mixed from an audio program and he moved some knobs... This i dont appreciate... clearly the term live, varies from act to act, and if you are really interested in the music then you will do your research and go to a perfomance for which you know what you are going to get, and thence you will not be dissatisfied.....

Finally, I do believe that much of this discussion has to do with the fact that many many musicians, sell the "live" act and then rip people off... To me live in the psychedelic trance sense is not playing each note in real time, but actually allowing the artist, with the tools that he feels comfortable with, the tools that he uses to make our minds and bodies go wild in the middle of the night, allow for creative interpretation resulting in a sound, or loop, piece that has never been played before and that will probably not be reproduced extensively... Thus as I understand the psy trance music creation process, i dont expect to see a symphony perfoming when i go to one of these events... At the same time though, it is very very very very very hard to come accross psy trance performers who have this level of musical ability and creativity that they wander off into unchartered sonic ground in their performances.... Not that the symphonies actually do this, they actualy just follow a pattern of notes suspended harmonically from some lines in a paper... If anything, it should be easier to improvise and create new sounds in this day and age, with the equipment we have within our reach.... If you have any recommendations, please don't hesitate to fill me in....

Peace in the middle east my friends!!!!!
nobody_3
Inactive User

Started Topics :  13
Posts :  1177
Posted : Nov 6, 2003 21:43
Well I also asked why the topic was locked and asked the moderators to moderate out from the guidelines in this forum and not as taste judges... Of course it only took a few seconds before my post was removed.... Way to go Moderators!

As for the whole topic about playing live or not I think i have said what I needed to say in the other topic

But I am of course willing to once again say that yes I know that it's very different to playing live with traditional instruments... I think I also said this many times in my posts and I also said that I had nothing against playback or using computers and sequenser's as long as the artists don't pretend something they are not doing (like only playing with a DAT and pretend you're playing live) . That is in my opinion to fake it too much and to steal people's money.

That was my original point of view and it still is.

As for the orchestra idea... well I would love to see that At least it could be something different and not just another guy standing behind a DAT or Labtop pretending to be busy... Don't misunderstand me.... I did it in the past too and that's a major part why I don't do it anymore.... playing live.... I always felt unsatisfied and unhappy that so many people paid good money for "nothing"
Until I have found a way to do it properly I don't bother to play "live". I rather DJ and actually work for my money
timsensient
Sensient

Started Topics :  101
Posts :  438
Posted : Nov 7, 2003 01:51
I think live is overated in trance, personally id rather spend the time and energy to create a brand new track to play to people on cd, rather than spend the same amount of time and energy remixing and arranging a track for live - and i dont see anything wrong with this, although the reaity is if i wanna get paid almost twice the amount i have to make token live set, which i really dont wanna do. If u come from the correct angle with this music why should you care if it is being played live? I am listening to the brilliance of the ideas contained in the track, not what may or may not be live. If i wanna see improvisation i will go see a jazz band...speaking of which, the only way i could ever see "True live" happening is with musicians of the highest calibre using highest equipment - jazz/fusion musicians...this is live i would like to see!!
Daf


Started Topics :  3
Posts :  10
Posted : Nov 7, 2003 10:09
This is an intersting subject! I am for the moment, my self, looking into how to play it more "live" when I perform.
Up til now I have only used playback and a synth which I use to add melodies, arpeggios and effects with. Sometimes I come up with some stuf during the "live" which I think work good on the synth but sometimes it is just boring.
I really would like to do it more live, but don´t know where to start. It is hard when you are not as good on playing the keybords as Robert wells:)

If I would set up each individual part on stage I think there is to big possibility that I will not get my hands on things in time so it will get pretty monotonous and boring.

I have been looking into Ableton Live that I heard many people uses, but just after a small look on it I have to say that it feels very much more techno than psy.

And I am sorry to say that I can´t collect 10-15 people to play reherse for months and then play live. Who would pay so much money to hear us ?

Any other suggestions? hope to get many usefull:)

yossi
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  72
Posts :  1641
Posted : Nov 7, 2003 11:48
Elysium dear... just out of curiosity, have u ever saw/heard Joujouka in concert?           if you want to be rich, u`ve got to be a bitch!
nikur


Started Topics :  4
Posts :  139
Posted : Nov 7, 2003 11:56
Quote:

On 2003-11-07 01:51, timsensient wrote:
...speaking of which, the only way i could ever see "True live" happening is with musicians of the highest calibre using highest equipment - jazz/fusion musicians...this is live i would like to see!!



I actually agree, I don't think there are that many high caliber "live" musicians in the trance scene. So why insisting on this real live thingy?
The importants is that we enjoy the music.
vikuna29
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  10
Posts :  80
Posted : Nov 7, 2003 13:48
Dear forum,

I do believe that the important thing is to enjoy the music, and the fact of the matter is that we all enjoy the music, otherwise, we would not spend this time that we spend here talking about it...

Either way, clearly there are not that many skilled live musicians in the psy trance scene, and this would be a welcome addition to the already explosive sounds that it provides...

But, Eliseum's point is well taken, many groups go and sell their talent as "live" when what they actually do is just stand there infront of a DAT or laptop and move a couple of knobs and add effects... This is taking people's money, and I agree with it... This should be called something like "enhanced dj set" or something along those lines....

still, i think that gms was rather defensive in their initial topic and even though it is in good nature to protect their principles as musicians, selling off and offering money to do it, is no the best way to prove their point... maybe they were in a hurry, as many of these ultra-famous psy trance groups are, and that's why they miss many shows...

If anyone here is involved in the event industry, you will know that many artists miss their performances for many reasons.. missed the plane, plane was late, had a flat tire, hung over, forgot some equipment, really dont feel like doing it, or not getting paid enough... and so on and so on.... this is a fact of the business, but as customers being more and more demanding, and also being very very attatched to this music, we tend to take it personally, and say things like "yea gms sucks because they cancelled their gig in my hometown" which is plain ignorant unless you know all the details of the situation... and even if you know all the details, you will of course also know that it is part of the business and that it is nothing new...

finally, i just want to stress an earlier point that i made, which is that seeing all this automation and playback equipment, im surprised that the interpretation and improvisation element in the music creation process has actually faded away somehow... if anything, it is easier to improvise with all this equipment... why don't more people do it????


peace in the middle east!!!!!!!
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