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Live? Let's be realists! Where is the real problem?
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Psicho
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
176
Posted : Jan 26, 2006 17:22
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Well, with the loops you have to look to the crowd to see what is going on and wich beat they prefer.
You don't have to trigger everytime every loop. You have to prearrange the liveset and then play it everytime in a diff way. You could start from the last song, with the beats of the first etc etc.
Anyway breaks, intros and outros are sampled and recorder as long loops because that will be a lot of work!
Well, playing a keyboard solo (like IM - Deeply Disturbed Live) is very interesting but anyway I prefer playing a "background" piano part to fill a melody.
  --
Sometimes more psy, sometimes more trance
http://www.soundcloud.com/Rasael
http://www.myspace.com/Rasael85 |
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slyman604
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
263
Posted : Jan 27, 2006 22:36
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" So, it's very interactive and you notice that when I hit the keys, something different happens, and sometimes I might trigger a drum loop offtime and it's noticeable. As much as I am a perfectionist, I realize that the errors really add to the live experience too..."
that sounds great, i think a few mistakes here and there would totally add to the performance. i just watched a talamasca video the other day and he goes over to a roland synth and starts turning a knob that obviously isnt doing a fucking thing.
i honestly think people would rather you screw up and take a risk than pretend to be doing something, its just so absurd. |
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5Meo-Geo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
515
Posted : Jan 27, 2006 23:18
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mono mono
Onnomon
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
314
Posted : Jan 28, 2006 08:59
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On 2006-01-26 03:37, Psicho wrote:
I have seen videos of people using Ableton & other programs in very interseting way.
Most of them where Chill-out, D'n'B and Hip Hop.
They create a lot of rythms and sounds (chords, basslines, etc) and then just play them live creating new songs everytime. The fact is that psytrance is too difficult to work in this way but I think it could be possible.
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perhaps we should open ourselves to what IS acceptable for psytrance. Everyone is accustomed to the fancy lead-ins and break, which doing on-the-fly, is a bit challenging. These days it seems that alot of psytrance is "one production trick followed by another", this is what makes it so difficult. Otherwise, if you choose a more minimal, tribal, or progressive approach, you can build track creations, on-the-fly. I've done this with a collection of basslines, kick patterns, and all the meat in-between, using ableton live, not that my results represent the ultimate satisfaction on everyone's part. I got some good results. The upshot is that for a live gig, the unexpected, on both the audience and artist sides, is what your looking for. Your live setup should be flexible enough to build a track up, step back from the console, and say to yourself "holy shit! what's going on here!". As an artist tweaking with preproduced sound material on a live PA, those moments are what i'm seeking. Consequently there risk factor too, turn the wrong knob and POW! your sound goes away.
controllers...controllers...fast laptops...maybe a guitar or some other mechanical noise-making gadgets.
-dz |
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CMOS
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
191
Posted : Jan 29, 2006 03:59
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i think today the most of live acts are not live,when i see a computer system on the stage, with a usb keyboard, i dont think this is the neccesary HW to play a live act..
at the past instumetns and keyboards was neccesary for a live, u was seeing the artist playing... now the only i can see are some programmed tracks on some computers..
there very fiew artists which keeping playing their live acts with the original way
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Jan 29, 2006 06:49
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Here's a hypothetical situation here for you in response to the last comment.
Let's say you do an all hardware live set with between $3000 and $5000 dollars worth of equipment. What happens when you fly to a show where your equipment gets damaged or destroyed or lost?
Or, at the event some really intoxicated person breaks a vital part of your equipment or the authorities confiscate it, did you charge the event coordinator enough to recomensate for the loss? Unless you are on the level of I.M. and artists like that, you won't be able to find too many promoters that would pay those kind of prices. The performance of an artist is one thing, but also people come based upon name recognition and the released materials of that individual. Despite wanting a live act to be live, the crowd does also want the artist to sound like they do on the cds as well. And of course there are many acts that don't do anything but laptop mime, but at the same time there are other artists that can combine the stability of having prerecorded tracks or parts of tracks and add an element of live performance to it as well.
I honestly feel that people are forgetting that the music is what brings people there, not neccesarrily how the person presents it. I'd love to play at a party where the crowd could not see the dj or artist, but artist or dj could still see the crowd reaction. Over the years things are shifting to a more mainstream approach in regards to how the music is marketed. There's more attention being drawn to who the artist is as opposed to what their music is like. You can see that at the parties too there's the whole dj booth which tends to be the focal point of the energy in the event.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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FaceHead
FaceHead
Started Topics :
129
Posts :
1555
Posted : Jan 29, 2006 20:20
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ya ive noticed that everyone dancing front facing everyones backs staring at a dj like he will tell them what to do i like to look and see if I can tell what the artist is doing but the focus for everyone is at the artist this makes it hard to interact what we need is a rotating dj platform in the center of the crowd inside of a two way mirror sphere. See im an ideas man now you guys make it happen.... hehe
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Feb 13, 2006 21:18
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one thing taht i'm, trying to do now is to have a base track playing and assign some midi keys to parts of the lead , fx and breaks sampled.
then, while the base tracks plays, i trigger the lead and some FX by playing keys in a keyb...
improvisioning is possible in this way too, and it's not very very hard to do, so you can be playing and partying with the crowd too 
sounds can also be tweaked by assigning CCs to filter and other controls and a lot can be done this way...
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Feb 13, 2006 21:21
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Quote:
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On 2006-01-29 20:20, FaceHead wrote:
ya ive noticed that everyone dancing front facing everyones backs staring at a dj like he will tell them what to do i like to look and see if I can tell what the artist is doing but the focus for everyone is at the artist this makes it hard to interact
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goodmood partyes used to have the dj at the center of the dancefloor
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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icodon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
120
Posted : Feb 13, 2006 23:37
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Fuck! this is impressive...
Any idea of how could we do these effects in a voice sample???? Any suggestion of VST for that???
...GrooveŽnŽdooR... |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
104
Posts :
1047
Posted : Feb 14, 2006 00:37
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Quote:
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On 2006-02-13 23:37, icodon wrote:
Fuck! this is impressive...
Any idea of how could we do these effects in a voice sample???? Any suggestion of VST for that???
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Reaktor! 
LOADING... |
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icodon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
120
Posted : Feb 14, 2006 00:46
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OK... only reaktor?? Anything similar (VST) that uses less CPU???
...GrooveŽnŽdooR... |
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Steve_J
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
15
Posted : Feb 14, 2006 01:33
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Live music (in my opinion) means a live musical performance. There are too many artist out there that are simply pressing play on a pre mastered stereo wave form and simply acting. This is not live never has been and never will. It is extremly dissapointing to see so many artists in psy doing this (or as little as possible). Psy to me is a boundary pushing form of music that fail misserably in the live department. The technology is there (ableton live, reactor, max msp ect). It's the motivation by many (not all) live acts isnt. There are many challenges that producers need face in thier art, and each challenge overcome makes the artist a better one.
There are no straight answers because there are so many choices. Perhaps too many, leaving it open to the artist to decide what path their live act should take. I guess this is where the damage occurs because everyone wants to sound as good as possible..... and that is a pre produced pre mastered stereo waveform.
Lets hope psy can rise to the occasion and adress the issue.
-Steve |
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micromusic
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
65
Posted : Feb 14, 2006 03:39
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Quote:
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On 2006-01-29 06:49, mubali wrote:
Let's say you do an all hardware live set with between $3000 and $5000 dollars worth of equipment. What happens when you fly to a show where your equipment gets damaged or destroyed or lost?
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Bad things happen, but that shouldn't stop you from playing live if you want. I would say buy full coverage insurance on all your gear and bring cd backups of your songs so you can still play/finish your set if something goes wrong.
I just wish promoters would save "live performance by..." for acts that do more than just play back tracks without doing anything while they 'perform'.
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Feb 14, 2006 04:21
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Quote:
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On 2006-02-14 03:39, micromusic wrote:
Quote:
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On 2006-01-29 06:49, mubali wrote:
Let's say you do an all hardware live set with between $3000 and $5000 dollars worth of equipment. What happens when you fly to a show where your equipment gets damaged or destroyed or lost?
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Bad things happen, but that shouldn't stop you from playing live if you want. I would say buy full coverage insurance on all your gear and bring cd backups of your songs so you can still play/finish your set if something goes wrong.
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Let's follow this through a little. Say you buy your insurance and take your entire studio out to a gig, and something happens to eg. your main synth; beer or something in the keyboard, or maybe it gets dropped and breaks. You might be insured but you'll still be without your major synth until it's fixed or replaced. How about if you get a gig overseas? Do you have any idea how expensive it is to fly that much gear? Of course, the promoter could hire it locally; are you really willing to trust a non-technical person to get every specific of your setup right? Or how much it will cost to hire a studio-full of equipment? Don't forget, you'll also need some kind of mastering processor if your set isn't to sound weak and weedy. Obviously, doing it this way will mean you need a full sound-check before the party, and you'll have to take into consideration the difference in acoustic between an empty venue and one full of people - but you're experienced enough to do that, aren't you. Finally, if you're a one-man-band you can forget about being able to make any kind of convincing performance with a full-studio setup; I tell you now, you don't have enough hands. Even two people isn't really enough as to keep things sounding sweet one person really has to be on the mixer pretty much all the time.
For 5 years OOOD gigged in the UK in exactly this way, taking our studio on the road to do it properly live; I would run the set and mix it, while Steve and Nigel each had an analog setup (connected via MIDI/CV to the PC). We even bought a van (with what Steve and I earned from Fluorostani Transcendance) and did gigs in Europe in the same way. After 5 years, most of our equipment was no longer functioning reliably and a couple (including our home-made Silver Machine analog synth) had been completely destroyed. It's very hard to claim on your insurance when the damage isn't down to one specific accident; 'wear and tear' is excluded from most policies. The one time we did a fully live set without our own equipment (in Israel) the promoter assured us everything had been arranged yet not all the equipment turned up, and some vital cables didn't arrive until literally 20 minutes before we were due to play.
Trust me, it might sound tempting but there are serious barriers in the way of anyone wanting to take this path. On the upside, you get a tremendous connection with the audience but when you get home after a gig and realise you can't use any of this post-gig inspiration until you set up your studio again... 
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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