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Live? Let's be realists! Where is the real problem?
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Psicho
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
176
Posted : Jan 24, 2006 20:48
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Ok, mabye somebody will think this is the same post of always but isn't...
I want to have some opinions from producers and non-producers about what people (artists and party people) should expect from a live act.
As a producer I want to be able to be booked to play my own tracks. Today this is called "Live act" but many of those artist desn't do really nothing live more than some fx, pads, etc.
People is starting to notice it and doesn't really like it (and producers too), just go trhu the topics in this forum and you can find a lot of posts.
So what should I (we) do?
I can't stand infront of the people without touching nothing..it seems I'm not a serious artist!
..But anyway I have already made my songs, why should I tweak some fx's? just to show that they are really my songs??!?
Come on!
The solution may be making a djset with my own tracks, but that isn't a liveact and party people knows it (and they don't feel the music as a live act!)!
And so what? The only solution possible seems to show the peopole that you are tweaking and doing something, but I find that's stupid anyway!
I would prefer to put on my music and go to dance it with all the people than making a "fake" act.., that's more interesting no? (mabye somebody could develop a wireless usbkeyboard to play and tweak fx's while going around the party..  )
This apply most to single artists since when having a bigger group (like O.O.O.D, just great!) can do more live things (but anyway many times with a wav going under).
Mabye the problem isn't in the show but in the people that expect to see something different than a dj set!
They (we) think that the X artist coming from the Y nation playing the Z album, that they have already heard before, will be completly different and amazing!
But is really amazing seeing somebody playing 3 keys?
I've heard such sad things in parties like: "Artist Y isn't so good, they didn't even had a guitar!".
We have to change this liveact mania and start to try to understand what we really want (artists & party people)
OK..So I can't find a solution by myself..please tell me what you think about!
Please be realists, as an homebrew artist I can't start using only external hardware or learning to do arpeggios by myself (eheh, anyway that would be a quite amazing live show!).
  --
Sometimes more psy, sometimes more trance
http://www.soundcloud.com/Rasael
http://www.myspace.com/Rasael85 |
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Jan 24, 2006 21:03
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Well, here's the thing... As multilayered and as complex as the music we write is, it would definitely be incredibly difficult to do everything completely on the fly. Ableton live gives you a lot more options than using Logic or Cubase live, but at the same time, some of the sounds that are made are rendered and rerendered and twisted a lot more than trying to do it in realtime. Could you imagine trying to create this sound that took you at least 5 minutes to make and then you only use it for maybe 15 seconds? I think that as time goes on and more producers will rethink what they want to do for a live set. The crowd is very picky about how they want the stuff to sound and if you really think about it, most people that attend the events not only want to hear new stuff, but they want to hear the stuff that got them into that particular artist as well.
I'm very adamant about my live set having a continuous flow to it, and I like the transitions of my songs to be flawless. This keeps me in the idea of preprograming the full tracks that I want to play. However, I don't believe the push play live either, so I run extra sounds triggered by my midi keyboard and I have a couple of vsts that I run as well with custom patches I built specifically for live usage. So, it's very interactive and you notice that when I hit the keys, something different happens, and sometimes I might trigger a drum loop offtime and it's noticeable. As much as I am a perfectionist, I realize that the errors really add to the live experience too...
So you just honestly need to find your personal balance. If your computer can handle you splitting out all the parts of your songs and you can trigger everything successfully, why not? But as much as the performance is important, I doubt anyone would have come if they hadn't heard the artists music.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
933
Posted : Jan 24, 2006 21:12
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yeah it's bad to see that most of the live act sound is recorded but doing everything (specially when it's only one person) is really tough and a error in a live act can be really bad (imagine in a break you leave some loop like bassline playing... just a quick example). i think people should do what they can, the more the better...
but if they have a free hand i think they should be pulling up the energy. i hate a dj that never looks to the crowd (i'm a front row guy so for me this is important). junya for example rarely touches in anything but the energy he gives by reproducing the sound in a creative way with his gestures is unique... and i've never seen anyone lifting more dust than eskimo.
but i still think they should try to do the max they can. but everyone has his methods and is free to choose... if they do it good  cause eskimo is nothing more nothing less than my favorite producer and one of my favorite live acts (along with Sirius Isness and Space Tribe...). |
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Psicho
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
176
Posted : Jan 24, 2006 21:22
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Well, that's really true. It's impossible to do everything in the same time!
Performance patches are really good if can give the song a completly different shape and mood.
When the listener is getting a different mood from the original song (something like hearing the song in a higher level) that's mean it's a good live (imo).
An example is Infected Mushroom - Deeply Disturbed. The live version is great and I really love it!
This summer I have made some small liveset with Ableton by splitting all my songs tracks and channels in loops and then play them live playing parts of a track with other tracks and creating unique transitions or track parts! In this way I used to insert a lot of different loops that weren't even from the same tracks!
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Sometimes more psy, sometimes more trance
http://www.soundcloud.com/Rasael
http://www.myspace.com/Rasael85 |
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
506
Posts :
5388
Posted : Jan 24, 2006 21:31
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hallucinogen does a cool live - he programmes the a 24 ch. mixer with the bass, kik etc.. for diffrent channels so that he can create an actual live mix of his tracks.
he is constantly working during the live.
"On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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robomarket
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
35
Posts :
970
Posted : Jan 25, 2006 02:02
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I liked his performance this year. But last year at Spirit he seemed much more involved in his live act.
What do artists do if for some reason the computer powers down or the software shuts down. It doesn't happen, or it shouldn't happen, but you never know.
What then? Do they reprogram and preset all of the sounds from the beggining?
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Soul Kontakt
Soul Kontakt
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
632
Posted : Jan 25, 2006 02:14
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We also are thinking a lot in thisbecause we like everything to be perfect so we were thinking of pr programmed live act and add a few things to make it special but still not convinced about it
Boom :)
SOUL KONTAKT - 12th Planet new track on www.myspace.com/soulkontakt
Soul Kontakt Live for demo or booking email soulkontakt@hotmail.com
www.soulkontakt.com |
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Psicho
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
176
Posted : Jan 25, 2006 02:28
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@surrender: I have just watched the hallucinogen live video and seems he has a lot to do! Anyway I can't really understand what he does, he tweaks sends?
@robomarket: That should be like having a blackout in a big pop concert (mabye a in a playback festival)!
Anyway it would be interesting to know what to do it the music can't go on anymore!
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Sometimes more psy, sometimes more trance
http://www.soundcloud.com/Rasael
http://www.myspace.com/Rasael85 |
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BLiXeM
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
72
Posted : Jan 25, 2006 03:24
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Eat Static still rox the place when it comes to electronic-live acts....
Seen them many times from 1994 or so....and saw them recently again...and they still rock the place !!!
What's important asswell in case of a "live" act...is that you bring different versions than the actual release, so you create the illusion of beeing more "live"... |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Jan 25, 2006 06:52
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i think i dare to say i can come with good laptop midi controller and make complete new live music.
it will sound like me.. abit less edited.. abit less "fixed"...not known trax.. but it is live creation of music - and it sure be fun!
is that what u wanna hear?
wont work since it need time to build a good produced track.
again.. may be thats what live is all about?
i still come with cd and synths and just add to the trax some lines and fx's..not 3 notes but i use midi sequencer so it sounds pritty nice.. cause i think my crowd (and me) come to listen to best quality produced trax.
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Psicho
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
176
Posted : Jan 25, 2006 16:58
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Psymatika
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
30
Posted : Jan 26, 2006 02:05
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I agree with Rox - making a live set slightly different from the album is going to be a good start.
But I know some artists who only gig who never made an album yet. They have a lot of things pre-rendered to audio CD, and then play the rest live from synths and a guitar.
I think people just want to be entertained, they've paid to come and have a good time, and if they've come to see you then something to suprise them will be good.
But what may seem fake to you may be your only way to get on with your entertaining. So if you have a really good dance routine on stage who cares if you're using a backing CD? Tell me what popchart dance act doesn't these days!
At the end of the day people want to be entertained, if you can find a way to put across something that is entertaining then do it with confidence.
See this guy for example:
http://www.pianojuggler.com/
Look at his videos, enjoy the impressive show, but then take a real close look at the props, what he's doing and how its all worked out technically. Ok it'll spoil the magic but then most if not everyone in the audience are not professional artists or technically competent enough to know what's going on.
One last thing, if you're going to play a "live" instrument - make sure it's plugged in. The amount of times I've seen them playing something that isn't plugged in... lol
# ** Quick, get in, lets take a ride to another dimension! ** |
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e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
933
Posted : Jan 26, 2006 02:23
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psicho when you go to a live performance... any music style... you will always listen to music that's already written. there are improvised solo's or vocals (like hiphop) but no full tracks. a music is a music. but i think stoping for solo's would be really nice in a live performance. hehe nice yet another idea for the future... hope i get the experience for this |
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Psicho
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
176
Posted : Jan 26, 2006 03:37
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e-motion, in today music a lot of people create lives sets on the stage. I have seen videos of people using Ableton & other programs in very interseting way.
Most of them where Chill-out, D'n'B and Hip Hop.
They create a lot of rythms and sounds (chords, basslines, etc) and then just play them live creating new songs everytime. The fact is that psytrance is too difficult to work in this way but I think it could be possible.
This summer I have made a liveset with all my songs separated in loops (as I've seen for the d'n'b live) and then rearranged every loop live. In this way the songs had a different arrangement and I could keep on playing sounds & fx that people like in a moment during other part of the set. You can listen to it here:
http://www.ctgmusic.com/song.php?id=9237
Tell me what you think about it, I am thinking to continue in this way and to improve I thinked to add always new parts of sounds to create a liveset more than many premade songs..This eve I started working with my brother (he's learning guitar) and everything get's more interesting..
@psymatika: Hey that man rulez!  Wanna see some psy artist beating him!
Anyway my most inspiring artist is Jean Michel Jarre, you should see the video of the song "Equinoxe" from 1978..mabye you can find it on emule
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Sometimes more psy, sometimes more trance
http://www.soundcloud.com/Rasael
http://www.myspace.com/Rasael85 |
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e-motion
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
933
Posted : Jan 26, 2006 16:46
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going to listen... well yeah playing loops you make a unique thing but it's too work (imagine doing that for 3hours... 3hours without looking at the crowd).
i thought you were talking about keyboard solo's... i would love to see that... like in the middle of a break of a well-known song from the artist he plays a riff that nobody expects and sends everyone to space  |
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