Plasmorh
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
559
Posted : Dec 2, 2010 15:40
are u saying its normal not to create live sounds in a live act???? then why is it a live act??
sounds to me like a DJ set, but with all music made from u....
I want a spare brain.... or 2.
jonsta
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
313
Posted : Dec 2, 2010 15:51
in most of the live acts they just press the play button and use 1 or 2 knobs for highpass or cutoff filters... it's sad I know.
elastic_plastic
Re-Boot
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
1612
Posted : Dec 2, 2010 16:28
lot of fake live happenin around!!!
i had read a post here somewhere where astral projection was beaten up coz dey were doin a fake live!!!
also seen some videos of astrix doin a fake ASS-Tricks live set and also Dali and few more around the globe....
i dont und why the fuck would organisers mention live if it really has nothin to do wid a live set !!! always better to mention the reality!
knocz
Moderator
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1151
Posted : Dec 2, 2010 16:34
Yes it's very true and sad.. But just search for "Fake act" in Youtube..
When I was a kid in the front row at a party, i would be greatly amazed at all the things I heard the artist do, and I would wonder how they managed to do it. They were my heroes. Then I started producing and DJ'ing, and in my experience with DJing between lives just set me down, because in half the cases people would just play a glitch effect or a filter over a hour and a half long Cubase track, and in the other half they wouldn't even plug in their midi controller, because the sound was coming from a single cd in the CDJ. I just thought it was all BULLSHIT!
Therefor I made a vow not to play live until I can actually play "live". I've bought quite a lot of equipment and saw people like Tom Cosm, which gave me a real example that it is possible to play like this. Now I have a lot of work done, but no time to actually go out and play.
The equipment I (will eventually) use to play live:
-Rain Recording Computer
-Presonus Firebox
-AKAI APC40
-Behringer BCR2000
-Behringer UMX490 (49 key midi keyboard)
-E-Mu XBoard (25 key midi keyboard)
-Fame MS57 microphone
-Behringer electric guitar
-Behringer DJX700 mixing desk~
-Headphones
I have my tracks organized in a certain way: everything are in loops, divided into 8 tracks. Therefor with the AKAI I can rearrange the order of the loops and build up the songs, making the mix and arrangement live (although some loops can be 2 minutes long), and use that equipment to completely control Ableton Live dynamically. With the BCR I have it preassigned to he main channel effects, where I can mess up the final bus track to oblivion, and I also have control of a 3band equalizer with cutoffs, the Return channels send buttons (to send the the return tracks to them selfs and t the other return tracks, creating great dub sounds) and to some well selected parameters around Ableton that I want them to be "there" (for example, a beat repeat on the kick track so I can double up the kick or arp it up until it makes a single tone). With the midi keyboards I can play and tweak synth sounds live. Then back with the AKAI I can record what I've played and play it back, in Ableton's way of doing it.
Over all of this, some of my tracks are normal 8 minute tracks there I cannot rearrange or mix their order, but that's because I intend to play the guitar live, and there is only so much one can actually do, and I think I will be very very busy.
But like this I have enough control over my tracks to become a "live act", because I can change the way the tracks play in real time and easily turn it into something completely different, following the flow of the music and the audience.
I also think the audience can realize and hear when a live act is really live.. if there is no mistakes, no decisions were ever made. My method has a lot of flaws, and I'm certain that there will be a lot of mistakes happening live. I just hope that people will understand and enjoy my efforts and the music I like to make and listen to.
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
376
Posted : Dec 2, 2010 18:26
The big names from house and other club genres, limit himselves to djing... which is ridiculous imo, since they charge huge money.
3 guys behind the decks... dj & producers.
they could do some live stuff right? many free hands to work.
live act.. the world live should mean something..
and people should be more demanding, not just the event organizers but also the crowd.
SISMIC
Sismic
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
82
Posted : Dec 2, 2010 18:38
My idea is that every "fake" liveset you mention before(Astrix etc..) is capable to make a live set like Knocz says, the problem is the quantity of instruments/sounds you want in full control(not loops) because loops kill the "Flow" mylife is on the machines and is never possible to make a full psytrance track live, i am sure you can control 2 or 3 machines a time and not all the controls(only 2 or 3 per machine), anyone here have an idea how make and control it with a daw(loops intelligent structure and building), sure an artist know how to make in synchro many machines with MIDI old cables and MIDI ports, Sysex etc.. and make a liveset, but i repeat the problem is the quantity of instruments, i have 50+ instruments to control every track, of course i dont make minimal music.
I noticed that is impossible with 2 hands to control a full track, if i want control all may 9 track in real time i need 1000+ machines and also hands , what i can do is try to find a balance, im with you that one knob its really poor but the BIGGER part of the work is made in studio, with a lot of work on the flow on the concept, ist like a film, you cannot make a realtime film because you have to think about the flow of 90mins talk to the actors, give and take ideas, return at home, think about lights and cameras and so on..
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
376
Posted : Dec 2, 2010 19:01
uptempo genres are tricky... specially if they are not based on loops.
In my opinion psytrance is not a genre that allows easy improvisations. sometimes is better not to improvise at all.
it hard to add live stuff and still sound perfect.
ambient/chillout is different. you can do real magic when playing live, even if it is just a one person act.
aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
1490
Posted : Dec 2, 2010 19:47
Except for younger brother / shpongle, tom cosm and some other guys no psytrance liveact is really live.
Some guys bang percussion, others add fx, others play a melody on a slow part but there is no such thing as creating a track on the fly... it is practically impossible but somepeer s have been into taht for a long time (like cosm)...
Don't take it too seriously, at a party you are not there to watch dj perform, you are there to dance and have a good time.
Personally i just gave it up a long time ago... really the psychedelic trance scene is not for live stuff, most people are too fucked up to notice anyway and really I prefer tight prepared set than a sloppy performance.
Music like painkiller's is too complex to even think of editing, stuttering, reglitching and droping the bass manually... just enjoy they did a really well job at the studio.
Go ahead and bash me... i know a live act is supposedly performed live and a musician blah blah blah...
There are tons of threads like this, go read them and get your own conclusion. Just don't take it too serious or if you do go watch infected mushroom and its rock band perform "live"...
Although I have seen some clever live electronic acts, but not psy... like: dnox&beckers, guy gerber, james zabiela and simian mobile disco to mention a few, i have to say the "live" stuff had to do more with fx send, mixing loops, triggering samples and mangling a previously recorded set rather than actually building tracks on the fly.
o_o
Good luck swallowing the no liveact fact.
PS Check beardy man for real live xD
Plasmorh
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
559
Posted : Dec 2, 2010 22:02
i knew this topic would make ppl talk...
and i knew i wasnt the only one *.*
I want a spare brain.... or 2.
Plasmorh
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
559
Posted : Dec 2, 2010 22:05
@ knocz
yeap, thats a reaaaaaal live act... but for psytrance is hard as hell.. specially for hightech darkpsy --'
how will i make synths comin up each 4 or 8 beats? lol
im happy if i make djing between my songs and midi over them and effects and all...... but midi is essencial for me...
I want a spare brain.... or 2.
Vonoom
Vonoom
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
274
Posted : Dec 2, 2010 22:44
I agree with Aciduss. A lot of electronic music really isn't suitable to be created on the fly. Sure, you can add elements or tweak parameters on most tracks, but if you want the track to flow nicely and not be too loopy, you've got to let the majority of the elements be as they were created in the studio. It can be done, of course, but it requires a huge setup, usually with lots of hardware which is difficult to transport, takes forever to set up, and places your little babies at risk with all the wobbly legs and full beers!
I don't know about the rest of you producers, but most of my sounds as you hear them in my tracks have been mangled through several effects, bounced, re-effected, chopped and so on! Impossible to do live. But my hat does go off to people who incorporate as many live elements as possible in the given situation. Tom Cosm is absolutely brilliant in this regard.
www.soundcloud.com/vonoom | www.vonoom.bandcamp.com | www.facebook.com/vonoom | www.flikflakfamily.com
Plasmorh
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
559
Posted : Dec 2, 2010 23:00
ive heard murcof make music on the fly... just awesome... but its minimal, more easy...
yeah, my concept of live is, take ur midi, record 2 cds, and make a live set playing with ur midi on top of it...
midi is cool, and its noticable when u add a new synth to the track, live..... it feels great as hell to ear the producer working rather then just making what the others djs can make :/
I want a spare brain.... or 2.
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Dec 2, 2010 23:08
imo a truly Live set with actual live elements is more engaging and personal than a DJ set, even if the DJ set is more technically flawless and its perfect the entire time. The connection between the artist and the crowd is much more interesting imo when it's live. Or at least has the *potential* to be.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records
, what i can do is try to find a balance, im with you that one knob its really poor but the BIGGER part of the work is made in studio, with a lot of work on the flow on the concept, ist like a film, you cannot make a realtime film because you have to think about the flow of 90mins talk to the actors, give and take ideas, return at home, think about lights and cameras and so on..
