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live act or dj set ?
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
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5306
Posted : Mar 19, 2009 05:53
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On 2009-03-18 12:20, Zoolog wrote:
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and last is the fake live act , with only realesed 100% ready music and someone fake to touch the knobs like its some kind of comedy show.. that makes me feel like disparaged. if i wanted comedy i would go to standup club.
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well i said it before i will say it again, where is the comedy in a person who spends his time making music for people? - and afterwards presenting it in WHATEVER fasion that may suit him!? In the end its what comes out of the speaker and into your body, that will define quality - i know some people will disagree - and this is not even a discussion (to me).... if i want music, i go to a club.... |
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it start with "whatever way they want"
so why they call it live-act? because they are there not dead? or because it suggest they make the music with live interaction? i always asumed its the second but more and more justify that air coming in and out more important...
well well lets see if that so true...
how do you feel if you go to club to hear XXX and all u get is someone mixing XXX's tunes? i would feel cheated. but its same music out of the speakers.
u c the comedy is when the organizer could go and buy a cd or 2 , mix it at home and record it and play it , while hire some actor to make "cool dj moves" and it will result exacly the same as if you paid the artist so much for flights and fake live set (that cost more then dj set of same person).
maybe its tragedy actualy but im optimistic and rather laugh on that and feel more proffessional preformer then those clowns then feel idiotic for working so hard and buy so much stuff to create my live act to be musicaly intresting and challenging when i could just press play and go get bj from the hottie fan lol... hell i would much prefer so those airport runs with no laptop and bunch of shit and have only cd case ha..
and lets not forget the other side on the same coin like those fakes ask so much equipment and not using it , alot of organizers ignore my equip list needed result i can make only semi-live but then im not responsible for that..   www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Zoolog
Zoolog
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
783
Posted : Mar 19, 2009 11:47
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OFF-TOPIC (Sorry!)
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On 2009-03-19 05:53, Elad wrote:
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On 2009-03-18 12:20, Zoolog wrote:
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and last is the fake live act , with only realesed 100% ready music and someone fake to touch the knobs like its some kind of comedy show.. that makes me feel like disparaged. if i wanted comedy i would go to standup club.
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well i said it before i will say it again, where is the comedy in a person who spends his time making music for people? - and afterwards presenting it in WHATEVER fasion that may suit him!? In the end its what comes out of the speaker and into your body, that will define quality - i know some people will disagree - and this is not even a discussion (to me).... if i want music, i go to a club.... |
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it start with "whatever way they want"
so why they call it live-act? because they are there not dead? or because it suggest they make the music with live interaction? i always asumed its the second but more and more justify that air coming in and out more important...
well well lets see if that so true...
how do you feel if you go to club to hear XXX and all u get is someone mixing XXX's tunes? i would feel cheated. but its same music out of the speakers.
u c the comedy is when the organizer could go and buy a cd or 2 , mix it at home and record it and play it , while hire some actor to make "cool dj moves" and it will result exacly the same as if you paid the artist so much for flights and fake live set (that cost more then dj set of same person).
maybe its tragedy actualy but im optimistic and rather laugh on that and feel more proffessional preformer then those clowns then feel idiotic for working so hard and buy so much stuff to create my live act to be musicaly intresting and challenging when i could just press play and go get bj from the hottie fan lol... hell i would much prefer so those airport runs with no laptop and bunch of shit and have only cd case ha..
and lets not forget the other side on the same coin like those fakes ask so much equipment and not using it , alot of organizers ignore my equip list needed result i can make only semi-live but then im not responsible for that..
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As you said yourself, its kindda off-topic, furthermore you allready wrote this about 3 times before on this board, so did a few others. The question is not: "Are some live-acts retarded mofo's who wanna spend the organizers money on renting synths, and stuffing his/her album in the cd-player?", its been heard of, and we all agree they exist + they kindda suck. No one is defending this attitude.
"If i went to a club...." well, the reason for me to listen some act, is often to hear it on bigger speakers, than i have at home, but also to enjoy the music in the presence of its creator - i really doubt that some pre-mixed cd and an actor can overrule that. You might feel cheated by a mix of tunes presented by the artist who made them; I highly doubt that would be my reaction.
Often Live-acts are not payed more than DJ's - sometimes they are. Again the amounts of money in this for me is so limited. Maybe it's different where you come from....
I think that its cool that you spend alot of time and energy on you live performance, amen to that, personally i rather spend my time DJ'ing & making tunes and my money on reinforcing my studio - in the end this is what i want to be remembered for, i am a composer, producer and a musician, a representer of a culture - not some ableton freak with a midi controller (yet i am that too).
Sometimes i play the "piano" on stage, sometimes i dont; who's buisness is that again?! By the end of the day, i still did x500 times as much work beforehand than most DJ's would be able to, i did program the actual music, did i not? Should i be payed more then ? Yes could be reasonable!
...again the point of this is not the discussion, because its allready all over the board and on dead-act. We can discuss it there, i just lost my appetite over it.
If you have some (deranged) version of what an electronic musician should be like and some (narrow) view on what a live-set is, fine, book those, but dont make it a rule - as Aaron says, rules kill.
www.parvati-records.com |
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Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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1772
Posted : Mar 19, 2009 11:47
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A well designed live set is potentially more interesting and flowing. That potential just isn't used 95% of the time. At least without sacrificing quality..
I guess just do whatever you need to do to play good music..the only problem I have with "dead" acts is that it doesn't even matter whether they're there or not. Why should organizers pay so much to have these great artists around when they might as well put in their CD and push play?
I'm not suggesting that all live acts should be improvising the whole thing or standing there creating tracks from scratch (that's just boring for everyone), but why not be involved instead of just DJing your own stuff? I don't see how it's such a risk to tweak some effects or make some extra loops to mess with.
You can do anything from arranging everything on the fly to playing entire tracks and standing there with nothing to do. Whatever balance between safety and involvement you'll be comfortable with and capable of doing without sacrificing quality. So why is there such a disproportionate amount of artists going with the latter?
You believe in the users?
Yeah, sure. If I don't have a user, then who wrote me? |
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Zoolog
Zoolog
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
783
Posted : Mar 19, 2009 12:22
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Why should organizers pay so much to have these great artists around when they might as well put in their CD and push play?
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I think it's rare that great artists play exactly what's on the cd you bought, furthermore great artist should be payed/respected for their work, in the end the reason why the organizer end's up pocketing the money is NOT because he owns a cd with Astral Projection, but because he/she actually brought them there.
In that way it can be seen as a commercial buisness, which it (also) is.
...and to answer your last question; everything starts somewhere, and artist's in this scene starts with creating music, later on they might get interested in performing it. You cant really do something you dont know how to, but most artists are capable of playing their tunes for you (nice aint it?). Some got further, some even give more time to their live performance than the actual music.
www.parvati-records.com |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Mar 19, 2009 12:47
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On 2009-03-19 11:47, Kane wrote:
A well designed live set is potentially more interesting and flowing.
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that was my point from the begining sorry it took 3 posts and 1 small quote to make it clearer. im not so good with words etc.
and its never "rules" its just my opinion , this is forum and its the only thing i can do here... as well evryone else. i dont care if someone even wanna say fake live is the coolest thing , but ill be there to say i dont think so..
anywayz djs rox too no dought about it , when its good diverse set. usualy it can be longer too i agree on that but still my favorite set ever was texas faggott 9 hours live.. i guess its something like going to favorite band concert.
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
1772
Posted : Mar 19, 2009 15:58
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On 2009-03-19 12:22, Zoolog wrote:
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Why should organizers pay so much to have these great artists around when they might as well put in their CD and push play?
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I think it's rare that great artists play exactly what's on the cd you bought, furthermore great artist should be payed/respected for their work, in the end the reason why the organizer end's up pocketing the money is NOT because he owns a cd with Astral Projection, but because he/she actually brought them there.
In that way it can be seen as a commercial buisness, which it (also) is.
...and to answer your last question; everything starts somewhere, and artist's in this scene starts with creating music, later on they might get interested in performing it. You cant really do something you dont know how to, but most artists are capable of playing their tunes for you (nice aint it?). Some got further, some even give more time to their live performance than the actual music.
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Yeah..I understand why it works that way in practice, but if I get some artist's album and listen to it and decide to see them live, it's kind of disappointing (to me) to hear exactly what I heard on the CD. It's still fun since I get to listen to it in that kind of environment, but it could be a lot more interesting.
I would even prefer if the artist would prepare an entire live set beforehand. Even with the same album material you could remix the tracks or combine two tracks..something like a really complicated dj set. It would still be more of a presentation than a performance, but it would give me a reason to value having the artist there over a CD.
I think you should be paid to perform, not just be there. In an ideal world artists would be able to get paid for their work through selling CDs and playing live would be a totally different subject, but I'll save that for a different thread.
You believe in the users?
Yeah, sure. If I don't have a user, then who wrote me? |
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Zoolog
Zoolog
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
783
Posted : Mar 19, 2009 16:42
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On 2009-03-19 12:47, Elad wrote:
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On 2009-03-19 11:47, Kane wrote:
A well designed live set is potentially more interesting and flowing.
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that was my point from the begining sorry it took 3 posts and 1 small quote to make it clearer. im not so good with words etc.
and its never "rules" its just my opinion , this is forum and its the only thing i can do here... as well evryone else. i dont care if someone even wanna say fake live is the coolest thing , but ill be there to say i dont think so..
anywayz djs rox too no dought about it , when its good diverse set. usualy it can be longer too i agree on that but still my favorite set ever was texas faggott 9 hours live.. i guess its something like going to favorite band concert.
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I just got the sensation that someone here for some time tried to line up some guidelines/rules/truths about the subject. It's nothing personal, i just find it mildly untastefull, as we say in Denmark - Mind your own buisness, if I choose to paint my Dali (not that dali) inspired exhi- expressionistic art attempts with my dick, who's to argue if that's real art?
I often just prefer DJ's, but i must also admit that a live-set can be/mean alot, and sometimes take it much higher than a DJ set. I just rarely think that live-sets really does that - yet when they do, and your are loving the music, its a bliss - DJ's are more likely to take unexpected and maybe even unwanted turns during the set. Again then taste comes in... 
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On 2009-03-19 15:58, Kane wrote:
I think you should be paid to perform, not just be there.
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I agree!
www.parvati-records.com |
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Mar 19, 2009 20:37
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On 2009-03-19 16:42, Zoolog wrote:
I just got the sensation that someone here for some time tried to line up some guidelines/rules/truths about the subject. |
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Not sure if you mean me but I guess I've tried to do something like that. It's a topic I'm passionate about and I make no excuses 
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| if I choose to paint my Dali (not that dali) inspired exhi- expressionistic art attempts with my dick, who's to argue if that's real art?
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That's not the point though. The point is, when take a photo of a painting you made with your dick and tell people it's the original, you're lying in the same way as people do when they play a pre-rendered set with no interaction and call it 'live'.
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| I think you should be paid to perform, not just be there.
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I agree!
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So do I Unfortunately I don't consider just dancing as being worthy of a fee, otherwise why the hell isn't everyone on the dancefloor getting paid to be there? 
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
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Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Zoolog
Zoolog
Started Topics :
18
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783
Posted : Mar 20, 2009 01:16
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Hey Colin, joining the OFF-TOPIC are we? Well i didnt exclusively mean you, but of course i had you in mind aswell
Well in that case, the dancer case, he still produced the music, and by being the dude who selected it, made it, presented it to you, pressed play on the medium that played it for you, i think he could deserve at least your respect maybe even money? You judge, but im not shure i will find your verdict fair.
Again you are dictating for us what 'live' is and claiming that some people are lying, this is only by your measurements - im shure we could agree on what sucks, what is cool, what is fair, and that some people lie, but i dont see any difference between 'live' in terms of rock and pop, and 'live' in the electronic scene. It's fake, coke filled, glam fixated and so on. What you are trying is like a crusade to re-conquer a lost word...
"Performing a Live PA is an open process; there are very few pre-defined rules other than that the resulting sound/music is considered to be "electronic". Execution can range from pushing play on an audio CD while pretending to play instruments, to live keyboard playing alongside a live drummer or percussionist, and anything in between."
For further reading on this subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_PA
Enjoy!
www.parvati-records.com |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Mar 20, 2009 01:24
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yes live act and live pa is 2 things , no one use the 'pa' title tho , this why we ever got to talk about it
if it would say live pa it was honest and thats all we care.
heh guess what , wiki suit evryone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_music
anywayz my last comment about offtopic.. getting sick of that discussion evrywhere. its free world people can do what they want. i couldnt care less if its done in trance or britney with playback. thats exacly what it is actualy. but you know that embarce moment of singer who dropped the mic and the voice kept singing? all i can say is hahahahaha and never to put myself in such rediculus situation www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Zoolog
Zoolog
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
783
Posted : Mar 20, 2009 17:17
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On 2009-03-20 01:24, Elad wrote:
yes live act and live pa is 2 things , no one use the 'pa' title tho , this why we ever got to talk about it
if it would say live pa it was honest and thats all we care.
heh guess what , wiki suit evryone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_music
anywayz my last comment about offtopic.. getting sick of that discussion evrywhere. its free world people can do what they want. i couldnt care less if its done in trance or britney with playback. thats exacly what it is actualy. but you know that embarce moment of singer who dropped the mic and the voice kept singing? all i can say is hahahahaha and never to put myself in such rediculus situation
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I still dont see any defining guidelines in this link, all it says is "A concert is a live performance, usually of music, before an audience." - and that they usually charge money for you to enter. But i catch your point i guess. But remember if you drop dead on the stage while performing a looped sequence, the music will also still be playing - would that be equally "hahahahaaa" ?  - what you do is still a kind of playback.
Im equally tired of this discussion and that is partially why i started this here - to end it. Artistic freedom should not be limited to a few programs or bound to a specific model.
Peace!
www.parvati-records.com |
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Mar 20, 2009 21:38
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Login
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
65
Posts :
1707
Posted : Mar 20, 2009 23:02
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so who got this idea of live in the first place?
and where exactly turned to the fake live presentation than now dominates psytrance?
why is that there arent good dj's in psytrance as big as sven vath, magda or digweed/sasha in other genres? ( i mean as big as their scene allow them).
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
1772
Posted : Mar 21, 2009 01:12
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It's all about technology..the resources are available now without lugging around 200 pounds of gear and 8 people to help you keep it interesting. I don't think anything has changed drastically, and that's sort of the problem..the potential for really interesting (but still practical) performance is available now and very few are taking advantage of it.
Not sure about the dj thing..possibly because the ratio of producers/djs to listeners is different in this scene? I don't think djs are valued as much in this scene, which could either be a result of there being way too many of them or an indicator of changing technology.
I started making music instead of djing purely for financial reasons. I wanted to dj at first but good gear was so much more expensive than a decent sequencer and midi controller. Everything is getting more accessible and more convenient (but somehow more complex), and music production isn't immune to that.
You believe in the users?
Yeah, sure. If I don't have a user, then who wrote me? |
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RK9
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
210
Posted : Mar 23, 2009 01:54
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I see "Live PA" more outside the psytrance scene, at raves it's almost universal when someone is doing a liveset.
Also no one really bothers with this fake live thing at raves or clubs... if they don't want to do a real live performance, they'll just do a DJ set, which is what I wish psytrance producers would do.
...Oh, I forgot, nobody in psytrance knows how to DJ |
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