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Listening & Hearing
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lucidpicnic
Lucid Picnic
Started Topics :
132
Posts :
855
Posted : Oct 23, 2010 16:27:46
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Seamoon
Seamoon
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
314
Posted : Oct 23, 2010 16:38
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Yeah very true.
The thing is the more you knwo about music, structure, genres and all this stuff, the more you start listening with your mind instead your heart. I think every artist know this when he makes music for several years, the 'magic' is gone at some point because you know the structure behind it and how it's created.
the key is to learn to listen with your heart again and not with your mind. And how you achive that, is a secret everybody has to explore for himself.
For me meditation works very good!
  http://soundcloud.com/seamoon |
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a3k
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
269
Posts :
7826
Posted : Oct 23, 2010 19:26
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i must agree with you picnic..i think we over dissect the music..that feeling of naiveness about the music is sometimes lost..
the more we know, the more magic is lost..whether we want it or not, i think it turns to be a natural process.
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Gunter
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
1465
Posted : Oct 23, 2010 19:48
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Well, I can talk about music and enjoy it at the same time. Nothing lost there
If I would never have talked about music, I wouldn`t have found so many gems. And I wouldnt ahve been able to recommend something to somebody.
But if you are talking about fragmentizing and analysing the music, well, I don`t do that.
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Anatta
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
4
Posted : Oct 23, 2010 23:24
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Interesting topic, anything specific that brought it up?
Reminds me of The Book of Not Knowing by Peter Ralston, might want to check it out. Here is part of the description:
"Over decades of martial arts and meditation practice, Peter Ralston discovered a curious and paradoxical fact: that true awareness arises from a state of not-knowing. Even the most sincere investigation of self and spirit, he says, is often sabotaged by our tendency to grab too quickly for answers and ideas as we retreat to the safety of the known."
On the other side, I remember a Shulman interview where he said he wished he would have started serious music study earlier. |
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Oct 24, 2010 09:47
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Quote:
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On 2010-10-23 16:27:46, lucidpicnic wrote:
I feel like sometimes we forget about the real thing and instead of really listening to music we are over judging, over intellectualizing it. And then talking about it,writing about it,reading about it, eventually knowledge of music, becomes more important than the experience itself.
i think that sucks.
i had 2 cents to spend so
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I write only what I feel & think. Only after I experience.
I never review as I listen. I never review before I listen many times and in different moments and moods and states of mind.
For me it's an extension to the experience to talk about it, write about it, share it. It does not hurt the experience itself. And yes, sometimes the words don't suffice.
But it's a good point to have in mind...
---------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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spatialize
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
59
Posted : Oct 25, 2010 02:01
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i read about an experiment where someone tested the responses of a zen monk to traffic. most peoples brains will naturally filter out the sound and the brains attention will turn elsewhere. i.e. most people's attention to the sound of traffic gradually faded.
however when they tested the monk, his brain showed that he was always hearing the traffic 'as is'.
this an interesting correlation to music. bascialy our brains are nearly always in the way.
for instance when we are disappointed with the new album of an artist that we like, we are really only disappointed in time; as we are constantly referring it back and comparing it to our previous mental judgement of that music. or we're comparing it against some mental construction about how the music 'should' sound. so we're not really properly listening, we're comparing. if we could just hear what we're actually hearing. sometimes it takes a while for albums to sink in. this might be a case of our brains slowly letting go of what we were comparing the music to?
for example, i've read bad reviews about shpongle and then people say, well if this was the album of an unknown we'd all be raving about how great it was. if we're saying this we're not actually hearing the music fresh at all.
the intellect is useful for describing the music, and for the act of creating it but when it rules the roost we lose something. i think it was david bowie who said that talking about music is like dancing about architecture.
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
Posts :
3239
Posted : Oct 25, 2010 09:04
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Quote:
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On 2010-10-23 16:27:46, lucidpicnic wrote:
I feel like sometimes we forget about the real thing and instead of really listening to music we are over judging, over intellectualizing it. And then talking about it,writing about it,reading about it, eventually knowledge of music, becomes more important than the experience itself.
i think that sucks.
i had 2 cents to spend so
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what is the real thing? remind me please...
I agree with you. But does it suck or you just can't face the transition? I suppose the more you know, the more complex it becomes to challenge your mind... It's a progress then. Shouldn't suck.
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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lucidpicnic
Lucid Picnic
Started Topics :
132
Posts :
855
Posted : Oct 25, 2010 10:52
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real thing is just music. and what i observe is; it becomes the detail while knowledge of music is the real thing for people.
it happens in many ways. i hardly see people who really hears the music. i feel like their minds 'think' about music while they are listening to it. lets not say they, i do that too. i find myself thinking like ''oh he used some filter here, ohh cool reverb using, what a great track, that track sucks etc,...''
i hardly find myself becoming one with music which happens only with meditation though like seamoon mentioned, or with tracks which they really grasp you and shut your mind off. on the other side; talking and thinking while listening can be cool for other people, i am not saying what i believe is the right thing.
so eventually its a life problem. it is same with other things as well. we just think and think and think while doing something. instead of just doing it.
and when the subject is music..man it is transcendent, its so absurd to put it into words...my point is not that we should stop talking about it, reading about it and shut our mouths and listen to it..no, of course we will do that. it is fun to read and talk about it. but seems like these things are becoming the first deal while music itself is. thats what i wanted to discuss.
people think its great to have large music knowledge. for instance knowing many artists, having many cds,records etc,knowing about music history..surely its a cool think but sometimes i feel like people think about music as for their improvement not for their own sake. Whatever the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves
http://soundcloud.com/obliviongarden
http://www.myspace.com/letshaveapicnic
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Lucid-Picnic/159819784056784 |
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iTranscendence
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
386
Posted : Oct 25, 2010 11:47
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I know when I write I try and verbalize what feeling and experience the music is conveying to me.
blip.fm/itranscendence |
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Dopese
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
29
Posts :
298
Posted : Nov 13, 2010 12:02
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On 2010-10-25 10:52, lucidpicnic wrote:
so eventually its a life problem. it is same with other things as well. we just think and think and think while doing something. instead of just doing it.
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I really like this topic, very interesting. Read some books about Zen Buddhism the last months and as I understood it, the content of this topic is what Zen is mainly about.
People have lost connection to the world as it is by categorizing and putting things into words. Often we are captured inside the language and in our concepts of the world instead of just being aware of our perception. Like Alan Watts said, it's like mixing up the menu card with the food itself.
When I first heard Goa-Trance many years ago it was a real mind-blowing experience. I just didn't have any concepts of it
and I didn't know the right words to talk about it. But with ongoing time it wasn't possible to get the same quality of experience again because I was able to compare it to the older experiences and so the thinking and categorizing started in my mind. I think also that's why it's interesting again to listen to the music in a different state of mind from time to time because you get a different view on it again.
But as lucidpicnic said, it's a fundamental thing and not only a music thing.
http://my.opera.com/Dopese/ |
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Outolintu
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
Posts :
1477
Posted : Nov 13, 2010 12:43
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Nov 13, 2010 19:01
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Just look at this forum. Most of the time (I try not to generalize) reviews are ùber positive and instantly people will think it's good music without bother to listen to the actual music before they make up their mind. I totally agree that people in many ways have lost the ability to really listen before they judge music. This also goes for many other things in modern life 2010/11.
off-topic: ehmmm when did this topic become a debate about zen Buddhism?
www.beatagency.dk |
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Outolintu
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
Posts :
1477
Posted : Nov 13, 2010 22:46
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are you refering to the replies of dopese and myself (the books i recommended have a zen approach among others to listening and hearing)? there is no debate (= a discussion involving opposing viewpoints) i don't see our replies challenging somebody elses points of view. we're just broadening the perspective into _hearing_ and not just hearing music. and i bet it doesn't bother mr. lucid picnic one bit. i guess it's bringing a ISM into the discussion that ticked you off.
"no one ever sweats on a plug-in" -moby |
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Bodhisattva
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
109
Posts :
1537
Posted : Nov 13, 2010 23:01
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On 2010-11-13 19:01, Beat Agency wrote:
Just look at this forum. Most of the time (I try not to generalize) reviews are ùber positive and instantly people will think it's good music without bother to listen to the actual music before they make up their mind.
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I don't rely on reviews. I always listen before I make up my mind, and I think that most people do the same. A positive review can make me check a release out and listen to samples etc, but I won't say or think that something is good until I really listened to it.
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