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Limiting on the master ?
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 17, 2010 08:11
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I've used a limiter on my master to just cut out peaks in the mix when I had sounds I didn't want to notch frequencies out of. So say I have a track that stays between -5db to -3db for the most part, I might put a limiter at -3db to prevent a handful of parts from going over that limit (rarely more than .5db is limited). I haven't heard anything detrimental to the track when doing this.
I guess I do it so I can dj my tracks without having to worry about too much range of volume changes during the track.
Maybe it's not the best idea, but I can't say that I actually hear anything negative when compared to tracks I don't do this with.  http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
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5292
Posted : Dec 17, 2010 14:00
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I mastered our third LP and I ended up with a whole mastering chain on the master output, at arrangment level.
The procedure of, basically, trial and error since it was my first attempt at mastering music (well I have been roughly mastering every mix I made, in order to play it out), was a huge learning experience for me.
I recently (well bit more than a month) moved into a new house, which meant a separate room for the studio, with the acoustics sorted (DIY I've only got the ceiling left to do although when sweeping the sine oscillator, testing the room, I got a pretty flat response at the listening/sweet spot) and the monitors properly placed (there was quite a bit of moving around).
So I mixed every tune of the 3rd album to the best of my ability, with absolutely no processing on the master chain what so ever, and bounced the stereo 24bit mix to later import as a stereo file and proceed with the mastering process.
The best of my ability meant that after letting each tune alone for a couple of days and then come back to it with fresh/tuned ears (I started each session with a little bit of listening to other people's music that I think sounds banging), I had some more mixing to do...
So back to mixing the tune down again and enter the crusial, "where the fuck do I hi-pass my mixes?"
Besides hi-passing the kick and bassline, I had another hi-pass on the whole mix. So to my ears it was a combination of the kick-bass-stereo mix, frequencies to match in order to avoid uneccessary sub frequencies, avoid inducing "ringing" from the phase distortion of the hi-pass filter and generally making the bottom end, sound full, defined and tight.
Then thought about stem mastering, but I thought that I would do a better job if the number of stems, was equal to the number of channels in my tunes.
So I placed the mastering chain of the master channel and sorted things as I mixed, bypassed it often to get an idea of what is going on and at the same time, A/Bed my masters to other people's music to get a coherent mix balance.
I do believe that this 3rd album sounds a lot better than the first two albums, but not because Colin did not do a good enough job, I think he did very well with the quality of mixes I provided back then.
But this whole "listen till your ears bleed" training process of understanding compression/limiting on full mixes, improved my skills at mixing down the tunes as well.
Sorry for the long post, but all I want to say is, try anything that you think will better your music and your skills as an engineer. You won't learn anything, unless you experiment and fuck up. The important thing is to understand what went wrong.
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 17, 2010 17:17
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these day good mix are the one with loudness potential ,punchy and clear ,tight low end and well balanced... mastering experience can sure help a lot there when mixing. i can see only advantages to mix in a good mastering chain since the begining of the track, but experience is needed in mastering.
what Dh say i heard it with many artists when they started to master themself and i have experienced it myself too , mastering is really good experience for mixing, to understand how to make a good mix with loudness potential .
but it s a bit off topic , it s more than just inserting a limiter on the master , it s getting the benefit of a good mastering chain that you know work great for the kind of track you are doing ,to get the best sounding and loudest mix possible with the less compromise ,artifacts.. |
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
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1490
Posted : Dec 17, 2010 17:18
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Nice port DH... interesting. |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
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170
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3642
Posted : Dec 17, 2010 20:22
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
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1397
Posted : Dec 17, 2010 20:41
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Dec 17, 2010 23:26
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monno
Grapes Of Wrath
Started Topics :
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Posts :
454
Posted : Jan 1, 2011 14:52
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 1, 2011 17:50
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haven t tried them since long time but yes me too from what i remember i didn t like them much ,they sucked big time to get lot of transparent loudness |
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vector_0
IsraTrance Full Member
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113
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Posted : Jan 2, 2011 19:34
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Since I'm not made of money and can't afford to master all my tracks, I've been putting a limiter on the master just for the sake of amplification. I try to crank up the gain as much as I can without there being any sound reduction at any point through the song. The reason I do this is simply so the song won't sound like a whisper when I spread it around.
Do you think this would compromise the integrity of the mix so much that I shouldn't do it? or do you think the layperson listening on soundcloud wouldn't really care?
http://soundcloud.com/rob-vector |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Jan 2, 2011 19:59
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Quote:
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On 2011-01-02 19:34, vector_0 wrote:
Do you think this would compromise the integrity of the mix so much that I shouldn't do it?
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It depends on the limiter/chain you are using. You should be able to get to -10dB RMS using your DAW's native plug ins, which is loud enough to play out/upload on soundcloud without destroying the mix.
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On 2011-01-02 19:34, vector_0 wrote:
...do you think the layperson listening on soundcloud wouldn't really care?
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I don't think they would care, at least I don't.
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
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Posted : Jan 3, 2011 16:46
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Quote:
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On 2011-01-02 19:59, disco hooligans wrote:
Quote:
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On 2011-01-02 19:34, vector_0 wrote:
Do you think this would compromise the integrity of the mix so much that I shouldn't do it?
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It depends on the limiter/chain you are using. You should be able to get to -10dB RMS using your DAW's native plug ins, which is loud enough to play out/upload on soundcloud without destroying the mix.
Quote:
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On 2011-01-02 19:34, vector_0 wrote:
...do you think the layperson listening on soundcloud wouldn't really care?
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I don't think they would care, at least I don't.
Peace out.
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+1
and i actualy put weird stuff on the master and check it at all places i go  priceless lessons.
http://soundcloud.com/magimix-1/chilling-forest-whispers
Wierd shit happens :) |
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Cardinals Cartel
Black Machine
Started Topics :
191
Posts :
3097
Posted : Jan 5, 2011 01:36
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Why to use limiter on the track master ? Why dont just mix all right ? . Think about ..
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PsyGalaXy
IsraTrance Full Member
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68
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437
Posted : Jan 5, 2011 02:14
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On 2010-12-15 02:35, Upavas wrote:
@ Time Traveller,
if you mix your track properly you won't need the limiter, it is the same when someone tells me ey, some 5k frequency is too lout in your e.g. lead, put a limiter on it. I would always choose to find the frequency that is too loud, and notch it out with an eq first, that way your overall mix will be a lot cleaner.
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I'm actually troubling about that,
trying all tools (eq high q, multiband comp,transient designers) but notching out frequencies cut away liveness to the leads here,
only in small amount my mix will be cleaner but not enough to turn down peaks or not worth the sound, i mean relatively flat wave but everything in the mids and trtebles dull and death
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https://soundcloud.com/opalmoonproj |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 5, 2011 05:21
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i wonder why someone would use a limiter cause a frequency range is too loud , it dont change much the frequncy range ,it s designed to be the most transparent.
(oops edit i just get it , you mean to loud for the meters , a limiter can maybe be more transparent than eq,but imo both can work ...,depend the source but notching 3 db or limiting less than 1 ,i will choose the limiter probably 90% of the time...but i never used a eq to cut peaks to not clip,it s too much a compromise if the sound is right) |
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