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Limiting methods at 0db
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Nik
Error Corrective
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
142
Posted : Sep 21, 2006 18:57
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The L2 is a very good limiter and is used by many pro mastering houses as a final stage limiter - all the favourite mastering engineers listed on the trance section will use this or something similar.
Just wack that on the master output and crank your mix as loud as it will go. If your mix is a good one then you should already get a similar sounding production in spectral balance and style to your favourite trance producer. if the limiter starts to distort before you achieve the loudness then youve got something poking out in the mix or the spectral balance is wrong. you can tell this by simply comparing your mix on an analyser with that of your favourite trance producer, and I aint talking PAZ analyser because that isnt very good Im talkin something alot more accurate....like RMEs Totalyzer that dosent work as a VST but as a seperate application that is specifically designed to monitor the soundcard output.
remember if you are going to have your mixes put through some expensive valve tubes at a pro mastering house then you will need to lower the level of the mix to -4db (peak) at least. the mastering engineer will want to have room to work those tubes.
since doing the above techniques I feel my mixes are alot better so watch out for my album soon to be released in December!
  1-0-1-0-1-0-1-0-?-0-1 |
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Get-a-fix
Getafix
Started Topics :
147
Posts :
1441
Posted : Sep 22, 2006 16:36
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Hmmm i'm still confused about this digital clipping issue so i decided to do a test..I made sure one of my tracks was clipping by a couple of db's & exported it at 32 bit floating point (using SX 3)..Then i put that through an L2 with 3db of gain reduction in sound forge..
If i understand correctly its impossible to clip the signal when you export @ 32 bit?
Now here's the weird thing if i do a 'detect only audibly noticable clips' or 'detect all 0db clipping' on the wav file in sound forge it show that there is no clipping..However if i do the same thing on the mp3 file it detects the clipping..
I uploaded a short sample of the file so you can hear for yourself..Can you hear any clipping?!
http://download.yousendit.com/32952C37672232C8
http://www.soundcloud.com/getafixmusic |
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Andreh
Bash / Kernel Panic
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
690
Posted : Sep 22, 2006 17:04
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just a doubt...
My songs without master, get out from cubase with a rms power between -30db -10db...
So i make a "mastering" work, i say "mastering" , beacause i dont know if it is right, but is seems to be good.. at least for my ears and some sound system...
My question is: Is ok the music get out from cubase with a rms between -30db -10 db?
Bash's Home:
http://www.myspace.com/bashbr
Mind Tweakers Records:
http://www.mindtweakers.com |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Sep 22, 2006 17:45
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On 2006-09-22 16:36, S-Cube wrote:
I made sure one of my tracks was clipping by a couple of db's
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You mean it was going over 0 dB by a couple of dBs, right? Clipping means that the peaks are getting clipped. It doesn't mean that the signal (in a floating point system) is going above 0 dB.
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If i understand correctly its impossible to clip the signal when you export @ 32 bit?
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The signal itself, no. But the subsequent processing can clip. Not all plugins deal well with levels above 0dB.
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Now here's the weird thing if i do a 'detect only audibly noticable clips' or 'detect all 0db clipping' on the wav file in sound forge it show that there is no clipping..However if i do the same thing on the mp3 file it detects the clipping..
I uploaded a short sample of the file so you can hear for yourself..Can you hear any clipping?!
http://download.yousendit.com/32952C37672232C8
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Yes. Not only that but the whole thing is very tiring to listen to. Before worrying about getting maximum levels, I would worry about that horrible snare sample. 
PS: The track is lacking low-end oomph. It seems like you hipassed everything too high.
That brings me to the next point: It is quite easy to get high RMS levels by removing all the subbass but it also means you are loosing alot of impact. The whole overlimiting thing removes alot of impact too. People should stop trying to get maximum levels and instead go for maximum impact!!!
Here is a good trick to set your limiter. I'll use the L2 as an example as most people *own* a copy of it: When you set the threshold, set the output at exactly the same level. Now you hear what is being cut off. Does it sound better with the L2 on or off?
UnderTow |
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drummel
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
50
Posted : Sep 22, 2006 18:26
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On 2006-09-19 17:43, drummel wrote:
How do you know the overall volume (RMS level) of a track?
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http://www.rogernicholsdigital.com/inspectorxl.htm
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On 2006-09-19 19:24, tsabeat wrote:
how do you know? use PAZ analizer , change the "peak" to "rms" and see the volume in the middle meter
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Tnx for the tip guys! |
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Get-a-fix
Getafix
Started Topics :
147
Posts :
1441
Posted : Sep 22, 2006 18:55
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On 2006-09-22 17:45, UnderTow wrote:
Yes. Not only that but the whole thing is very tiring to listen to. Before worrying about getting maximum levels, I would worry about that horrible snare sample.
PS: The track is lacking low-end oomph. It seems like you hipassed everything too high.
That brings me to the next point: It is quite easy to get high RMS levels by removing all the subbass but it also means you are loosing alot of impact. The whole overlimiting thing removes alot of impact too. People should stop trying to get maximum levels and instead go for maximum impact!!!
UnderTow
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Hey thanks for the reply man!
That horrible snare is not a sample its Stylus rmx..Why do you think its so bad?! 
When you say the track is lacking low end ooomph do you mean just the bassline or the synths as well? I always highpass my synths around 300-350..Is that too high?
I'm gonna try & fix the mix when i get time & i'll post it here to see if you think its any better..Thanks for the good advice
P.S. Were you listening to the sample on your monitors? If so which one's have you got?
http://www.soundcloud.com/getafixmusic |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Sep 22, 2006 20:06
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On 2006-09-22 18:55, S-Cube wrote:
When you say the track is lacking low end ooomph do you mean just the bassline or the synths as well? I always highpass my synths around 300-350..Is that too high?
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usualy when say this , you can add some 50hz pr 63hz and all oomph is back.
i'd say highpass synths is ok usualy , but think of 2 synths that you cut only in 200hz since it realy can kill their beauty without the growling 250hzs i always find 1 or 2 in my tracks , it also depend on basic filter inside the synth
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Sep 22, 2006 20:19
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On 2006-09-22 18:55, S-Cube wrote:
Hey thanks for the reply man!
That horrible snare is not a sample its Stylus rmx..Why do you think its so bad?!
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Sure it is a sample. It just comes out of RMX. It sounds too thin and too sharp. Did you hipass it? If so at what frequency? It also seems to be phasing but that might be the reverb you have on it (or is allready in the sample).
Are you using Stylus in pattern mode or sample mode? If it is in pattern mode, you can drag the MIDI pattern straight out of Stylus on to a MIDI track so that you can use it to trigger other samples.
You can trigger another sample with more mid range to layer with the existing sound or replace the sample entirely by something with more punch and not just high-mid/high-end.
I tend to create my snares by layering 4-5 samples.
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When you say the track is lacking low end ooomph do you mean just the bassline or the synths as well? I always highpass my synths around 300-350..Is that too high?
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That is quite high but I was talking about the kick and bass. I think they lack oomph.
Do you have them or the whole track hipassed? At what frequency?
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Thanks for the good advice
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You're welcome.
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P.S. Were you listening to the sample on your monitors? If so which one's have you got?
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At home I have Yamaha MSP-10.
UnderTow |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Sep 22, 2006 23:02
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Yamaha MSP-10
Do you like them UnderTow? i was thinking about a pair of these... but my budget is under all critique  hehe
so i bought a pair of hifi speakers, PolkAudio which my old yamaha amp juice...
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Sep 23, 2006 00:18
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The MSP10 are not bad but they are not the newest monitors on the block. When I bought them, I compared them to many others monitors in the same price range and they just blew everything else away.
The reason they blew everything else way is because they are flat. They are not hyped like HiFi speakers. They give detail without boosting the highs. (Like Mackies do) and very importantly, they don't tend to compress as you increase the volume. They stay clean and flat to levels I don't like to listen to.
If I had to buy monitors for my home studio today, there is a big chance I would get something else. The new Event series is getting good reviews. (Not the old ones. They really suck). Dynaudio of course have very good monitors in their price range. The new series Genelec is really not bad at all. Not quite the resolution of the Dynaudio's but nothing to be ashamed of.
ADAM has mixed reviews. Some people love them and some people hate them. They are interesting for a one person setup because of the directivity of the high-end. You suffer less from bad accoustics in the room. For the same reason they are not as nice if several people need to listen to the music as they have quite a small sweet spot.
I'm saving up to get something like the K+H O300D.
Beautifull monitors with no low-end hype. (Due to their closed cabinet design). Other contenders in the higher price ranges are ATC, PMC, Barefoot, Lipinski, Dunetech, Dunelavy and many many others...
UnderTow
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Sep 23, 2006 02:01
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UnderTow - nice info
though i must say not all hifi speakers are hyped, there are lots of them that strive for a flat respons though maybe a little wider sweetspot than most studio monitors..
a friend of mine said he was going for a pair of ADAMS....
i think i will stick to my bluesky and these Polkaudio for reference and my cheap PC speakers... and work on acoustics.
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Get-a-fix
Getafix
Started Topics :
147
Posts :
1441
Posted : Sep 23, 2006 02:12
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[quote]
On 2006-09-22 20:19, UnderTow wrote:
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Are you using Stylus in pattern mode or sample mode? If it is in pattern mode, you can drag the MIDI pattern straight out of Stylus on to a MIDI track so that you can use it to trigger other samples.
You can trigger another sample with more mid range to layer with the existing sound or replace the sample entirely by something with more punch and not just high-mid/high-end.
I was talking about the kick and bass. I think they lack oomph.
Do you have them or the whole track hipassed? At what frequency?
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I never really tried the pattern mode in stylus, just loaded one of the kits which usually had shitty samples and made my own loops..
When you say you can drag midi patterns are those pre-made loops that you can then choose the individual sounds for?
I think i'm high passing the snare at 200 so its taken some of the thump out of it..
As for the kick no its not highpassed but the bassline is at around 40 which i guess is too high..
I recently bought Dynaudio BM5A's but haven't had the chance to mix this tune on them since i've sold my sound card..
Thanks for pointing out these things though, some good advice is always helpful!
http://www.soundcloud.com/getafixmusic |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Sep 23, 2006 02:42
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"You mean it was going over 0 dB by a couple of dBs, right? Clipping means that the peaks are getting clipped. It doesn't mean that the signal (in a floating point system) is going above 0 dB. "
so i can have my individual channel meters in cubase turning red, i mean no indication on the master that its clipping but the channels are red and hitting the roof.. and this should be no problem?
one more thing, the inspector XL has 0dB as roof but the meter goes to +6dB.. whats this all about?
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Sep 23, 2006 03:06
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Sep 23, 2006 18:31
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