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Limiting methods at 0db
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Sound Surgeon
Crater / Mish-kah
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250
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2244
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 00:22
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I try to not let the sounds in my track to climb up to 0db and get distorted. I dont succeed with all of the sounds but mostly the sound do get distortions sometimes.
Is it so important to work out the sound and not let it clip? I never limit the sound to -0.1db on the main mixer channel. Should I work like that? Is slight clipping fine with sound work?
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assaf_zo
IsraTrance Junior Member
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46
Posts :
141
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 00:38
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its smart to use limiter on main bus,
but... that is absulote and u need to work on each channel db as well
i read somewhere on -16db to -12db method but didnt understood it well, anyone can help us
everything on amplitude 
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Methodic Marble
IsraTrance Full Member
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54
Posts :
384
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 03:05
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beside using a limiter, i my opinion you should make music in a very low level(db´s)
for example a a kick should go at -5.db
so the bass, the other´s sound´s should bee lower then 5, cos the kick and bass are the principal "caracters":) of the music...
so when you export the sound probaly will bee low, so then it´s time to mastering and put it in most high peat that you can...
this is my opinion  |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
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5306
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 07:28
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first , do you meen that you get clip from mixing 2 sounds each on 0 db ?
if so , its obviously wont work (read more about headroom in mixer)
i suggest to turn up the volume when working , have you kick around -6db or -8db , go on from there.. almost sure you wont get clips . prolly master channel gets to -2 db , which is perfect.
for good dynamic range , try to place hihats around -20db
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Pavel
Troll
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313
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8649
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 09:22
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Weird, when i studied at school they taught me to mix to -10 dB level and to leave the maximizing/limiting/hard comoressing to the mastering engineer. I never mix to overall levels higher than -10 dB. I can understand rough mastering for live/dj'ing purposes but i'm not sure mastering engineer would like an overcompressed track. The ones i've been talking to (they don't deal with Psy Trance though, mostly acoustic music) said they expect little to no master compression and stuff like L1/L2 or god forbid Limiter are a big No No.
I'd like to hear from somebody like Colin who actually does mastering what he expects from the artists.
Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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Sound Surgeon
Crater / Mish-kah
Started Topics :
250
Posts :
2244
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 12:03
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Id like to hear pros to say their word too.
Should we work on 00db or limit to -10db or whatever....
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orange
Fat Data
Started Topics :
154
Posts :
3918
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 15:40
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Jikkenteki
Jikkenteki
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20
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356
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 15:48
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Most professional mastering types I've talked with (again many outside of the trance world) like the peaks to be around -6 or -7db if not more. Giving a mastering engineer a track that peaks at 0db basically give the engineer almost no room to work with for eq and such. At PAR-2, our mastering engineer will actually return files that peak at 0db and ask the artist for new ones that don't peak as loud for mastering.
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 15:57
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pavel - sorry man they teach shit.
i use limiter on alot of channels .. and it sound great. i've come to know this problem with many peaple learning in israel with the same teachers actualy in all schools.. (u use Rvox instead right?)
books can say what they want , i say my own way. and its working (for me)
they dont know shit about psytrance , its all come to be very compressed anyhow , and with 2-3 limiters you save alot of mastering work. if you do it right
dont kill dynamic tho.. but remember you might need less dynamic range then ozric tentacles for example (they are 7 players , atleast no vocals..did someone mentioned only human voice and piano have the hole range from 0db up to 120db? most synth sound dont peak so much.. but still do)
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Sidhartha
Sidhartha
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
153
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 16:08
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Hello :sababa: ;- )
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Is slight clipping fine with sound work?
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No, the sound should never clip. In digital mix green is good, yellow is critical and red is bad...
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Should we work on 00db or limit to -10db or whatever....
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Make your entire mix to match peak anywhere beetween -10/-5 or -5db/-2db (that´s the best) and, as above, no limiters or any kind of plugins on the master channel
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The ones i've been talking to (they don't deal with Psy Trance though, mostly acoustic music) said they expect no master compression and stuff like L1/L2 or Limiter are a big No No.
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i second that and we deal only with psytrance and ambient artists,,,
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... mastering engineer will actually return files that peak at 0db and ask the artist for new ones that don't peak as loud for mastering.
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for sure i do the same...
... for good dynamic range 
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shachar
Basic
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
402
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 16:10
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we usually start mix when the kick reaches around -9db to -7 DB . we keep our VSTs & effect not to clip & offcourse each channel not to clip.
almost never use limiters but compressors i use alot.
from time to time i see a red dot on master channel and then i check my mix for a reason.
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 16:21
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if i understood things right, you can clipp things in two ways, either from instrument input or mixer output? can someone explain this?
i try to get the instrument input as high as possible and then i mix with good headroom..
sometimes i use a limiter on certain channels.
i dont think there is a wrong or right way if you aviod clipping in all aspects....
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The_Guardians_Of_Truth
Atma
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
379
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 17:12
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I guess many peoples makes confusions when it's about Db volumes !
Many peoples mistake the RMS level with Peack volume !!
So...Pavel said he learned in music school that the engineers mix the track at -10 db.
Yes this is true..but this is the finnal RMS level not the peack level.
I don't think somebody can master a track who has the Peack level on -10 db, and not to get a lot of unwanted noise in the track..
So when we talk about the "Headroom" in a track we talk about the Peack level, and when we talk about the overall volume of a track we talk about RMS.
I think the best settings for an unmastered track are:
1) Headroom (peack level) -2, -4 db
2) overall volume (RMS level) -15, -16 db
After the mastering the volume should look like this:
1) peack level -0,1 db
2) Rms level -11, -10 db (but never more than -10 db)
I dunno if the ideea with Kick on -6db is 100 % good...because it depends of the music styles and of the kick sample you use...Some styles are more based on the kick sample...some are more focused on the bassline and the kick is not that loud and fat.
Anyway..everybody as his own style of work !
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makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
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3087
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 17:32
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drummel
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
50
Posted : Sep 19, 2006 17:43
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How do you know the overall volume (RMS level) of a track? |
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