like nothing's safe anymore

On 2011-09-13 01:59, faxinadu wrote:

Quote:

On 2011-09-11 13:30, Maine Coon wrote: Therefore, even if 10 people actually play it - you gained 10 listeners. Your ROI is infinity.

i just want to give another perspective on this.

for my new album, my investment is as follows:

...

On 2011-09-13 19:20, faxinadu wrote:
beatagency can i ask you something without us getting into a fight? how come you are on the one hand so adamant about copyright being so important and a potential revenue source (not talking in the past, talking as of the music-biz situation of 2011)... and on the other hand you seem so somber about the current state of non-existent music models, and aware of how piracy is something one just can not fight?

On 2011-09-13 19:36, willsanquil wrote:
Also, @beatagency...

With so many people making and releasing free music of very high quality, why do you or anyone else think that they deserve respect in monetary installments?

I see a Lot of people nowadays that feel they deserve this respect and I think a lot of the time it is ego speaking.

If you want to make money in the music industry, that is to say enough money to subsist on as your profession...you will probably fail if you produce niche electronic music for hippies with no money.

I find all of this discussion ridiculous, especially in the current economic climate where so many people can barely afford to keep their homes and food on the table, let alone pay a musician some amount of money for something they did in their spare time for their own pleasure.

Of course, yes, it is true that if someone devotes their entire life and every possible waking moment to their music it will be better than if they have to work a full time job and only have a couple of hours a day to do it in...but it brings me back to my initial point...why do you, me, or anyone else deserve to be able to do this? Just food for thought

I feel incredibly grateful that anyone even listens to my music, and if someone were to give me money for it I would be ecstatic...but assuming that you deserve that form of "respect" will only make you jaded and cynical...better to assume you'll get nothing but the enjoyment of making the music in the first place.

On 2011-09-13 15:10, Beat Agency wrote:
You are two lucky strikes out of a lot of artists who got no bookings whatsoever. I also strongly believe it has all to do with the fact your styles are closer to the mainstream sound in the festivals (more commercial - not saying its bad) whereas more experimental artists or artists with a less fast bpm and less commercial get's zero bookings. Especially if they release for free. Of course I do not have solid proof to this claim but it's my experience.

I had more than 65000 unique downloads on Ektoplazm and own site the last two years and got nada.

On 2011-09-13 15:10, Beat Agency wrote:

Quote:

I had more than 65000 unique downloads on Ektoplazm and own site the last two years and got nada.

Did you expect to get paid?
Regardless, just like Ethik Mantis, you got listeners. Some of them – like me, for example – would never know who you were if it weren’t for Ektoplazm. Yeah, I know, you are Mighty Elysium and all that, but a year ago that name meant nothing to me. And two years ago the word “psytrance” meant nothing to me either. IsraTrance and Ektoplazm were what changed that. And now I use SoundCloud to discover more. Which brings us back to the OP. BTW, my first exposure to psytrance was on a pirate blog.

How is it different from any experimental art?
Or not necessarily experimental or even original – how many aspiring movie actors are waiting on tables? How many of them never get that lucky audition? How many painters can actually live off of their painting sales? How many writers end up on NYT Bestsellers’ List? Percentage-wise.

You keep saying that it’s something specific to the psytrance Scene. Maybe it’s more pronounced in this scene, but it’s certainly not unique to it. In fact, it’s the same even outside the realm of art. For every multimillion-dollar-a-year sport star – how many aspiring sportsmen end up as (best-case scenario) middle school coaches? How many PhDs actually become tenured professors, or even just make it to the faculty? I am not even talking about MSs – you’ll be lucky to get a temp position in a two-year college with that degree. Yes, I know things are probably different in Denmark. Nevertheless…

It’s just the nature of these occupations: lucrative top, mediocre middle and destitute bottom. Nothing to do with hippy trancers or computer pirates.

On 2011-09-13 20:15, Beat Agency wrote:
"Nada" was in context of getting gigs!

No I never said I expected to get paid even though it would be nice at times. I was responding to Disco Hooligans who wrote he got bookings as a direct reason of his free music being on Ektoplazm (where he listed how many downloads they had). And I responded with the fact (I am sure Alex will back me up on this one) that where he and a few other artists got lucky with bookings after releasing their free music the majority releasing free music is not so lucky no matter they work just as hard to get bookings. And I linked it to (a fact to me) that the reason why Disco Hooligans (fully deserved) got lucky have something to do with the kind of music they make, the bpm and a bit commercial sound. That was what I wrote.

Nothing about whether I deserved to get paid or not. I hope you now stop twisting my words (as you always do). Thank you!

On 2011-09-13 20:43, Maine Coon wrote:

Quote:

On 2011-09-13 20:15, Beat Agency wrote: "Nada" was in context of getting gigs! No I never said I expected to get paid even though it would be nice at times. I was responding to Disco Hooligans who wrote he got bookings as a direct reason of his free music being on Ektoplazm (where he listed how many downloads they had). And I responded with the fact (I am sure Alex will back me up on this one) that where he and a few other artists got lucky with bookings after releasing their free music the majority releasing free music is not so lucky no matter they work just as hard to get bookings. And I linked it to (a fact to me) that the reason why Disco Hooligans (fully deserved) got lucky have something to do with the kind of music they make, the bpm and a bit commercial sound. That was what I wrote. Nothing about whether I deserved to get paid or not. I hope you now stop twisting my words (as you always do). Thank you!

Never said anything about deserving – only about expecting. You must’ve confused me with Will.

Yes, Alex already confirmed that DH and Ekoplex are more of an exception than a typical case. But your case is not exactly usual either. All the downloads you were getting probably came from your numerous fans from the Good Old Times and a handful of curious neophytes like me. The first group already paid for your CDs/sets. The second would have to sell their kidneys if they paid for every album they are trying to explore. As for festivals, those downloads don’t translate into bookings for you not because you are ultra-avant-garde and too hard to digest for the silicon blonds. It’s because the same organizers already rejected you last year, and a year before and however many years ago they decided they were no longer interested in you. I don’t know when or why that happened but it may not necessarily have to do with the nature of your music. Or at least not only with it.

As for newcomers whose fate was not changed by Ektoplazm, here is what I think. Let’s say a release on Ektoplazm triples your probability of getting a lucky break in your musical career. Let’s say your initial probability of getting such a lucky break is 1/1000. You just improved to 3/1000. Still, out of 400 musicians whose music is released on Ektoplazm quite likely none will get a lucky break. It still does not negate the fact that Ektoplazm just tripled your chances of success. Of course, I am pulling all these numbers out of my ass, but I believe the principle is correct.