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like nothing's safe anymore
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hearttricks
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
87
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 02:43
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On 2011-09-11 00:36, Ethik Mantis wrote:
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On 2011-09-10 23:31, zafer wrote:
are you sure you didn't rip it yourself on the other site , just to be able to proudly announce that your music was ripped ?
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I'm a friendly dude you know, send me a PM, we'll talk and you will see that i'm a friendly person, but for now, fuck you and your judgments! It's impressive really, i opened up this thread because i was worried about my music and the safety of soundcloud, and then you come like a pink rosed face smart guy to ask me in a sarcastic way if i'm sure i wasn't the one who ripped my own music just so that more people would become aware that i make music. Now i'm starting to get why so many good people around here turn their backs and just don't post, what for? To have guys like you making questions like that? C'mon.
I've been receiving different answers regarding my concern, nothing made me mad enough to reply like this, so you must really be something special.
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cool it, brother, cool it!! the dude was (very) obviously joking.
is english not your first language..?
as for the rest of this discussion....
from what I see, there are two arguments, and each comes from a different place.
i think it comes down to this: do you do it for money? or do you do it because you think more good music should exist?
whether DL's w/o permission are an issue or not is totally dependent on that.. |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 03:57
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The day I) see a valuable insight to how many of artists tunes are actually being played and not just stored on people's external hard-discs (people eager to own all music without really listening to it) then I'll start to believe you gain something from being "lucky" to have your music on torrents among millions and more millions of other tunes.
 www.beatagency.dk |
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Trevon
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
376
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 08:43
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the links are direct downloads to the soundcloud api, 128 quality 
find out if they are automatically indexed or manually inserted..
some websites sell 128 mp3 for 15 cents. what a lol |
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hearttricks
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
87
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 10:43
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On 2011-09-11 03:57, Beat Agency wrote:
The day I) see a valuable insight to how many of artists tunes are actually being played and not just stored on people's external hard-discs (people eager to own all music without really listening to it) then I'll start to believe you gain something from being "lucky" to have your music on torrents among millions and more millions of other tunes.
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okay, but can the rest of us still believe that it might be a good thing to have your music out in the world, no matter who has it? |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 13:30
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On 2011-09-11 03:57, Beat Agency wrote:
The day I) see a valuable insight to how many of artists tunes are actually being played and not just stored on people's external hard-discs (people eager to own all music without really listening to it) then I'll start to believe you gain something from being "lucky" to have your music on torrents among millions and more millions of other tunes.
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You think of it in terms of return on investment:
For so many thousands copies on people's HDs only this many are actively listened to, out of which only this many gets used by potential bookers/buyers. It would be a good point - in a business/finance forum. But let's not forget - we're talking about piracy here. You invested nothing in distributing your track to those thousands of HDs. Therefore, even if 10 people actually play it - you gained 10 listeners. Your ROI is infinity.  |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 16:37
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On 2011-09-11 13:30, Maine Coon wrote:
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On 2011-09-11 03:57, Beat Agency wrote:
The day I) see a valuable insight to how many of artists tunes are actually being played and not just stored on people's external hard-discs (people eager to own all music without really listening to it) then I'll start to believe you gain something from being "lucky" to have your music on torrents among millions and more millions of other tunes.
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You think of it in terms of return on investment:
For so many thousands copies on people's HDs only this many are actively listened to, out of which only this many gets used by potential bookers/buyers. It would be a good point - in a business/finance forum. But let's not forget - we're talking about piracy here. You invested nothing in distributing your track to those thousands of HDs. Therefore, even if 10 people actually play it - you gained 10 listeners. Your ROI is infinity.
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You keep fantasizing about potential bookers/buyers listening to music when it's free on Ektoplazm or torrents. That's Utopia. As also stated by Disco Hooligans in another debate here on isra there's almost none if any bookings available for artists releasing for free. Maybe 0.1% of the artists releasing on Ektoplazm got lucky and got a few bookings. The only one I know of who gets more bookings is Ekoplex and as far as I know most of his bookings are within his own country Canada (correct me if I am wrong Alex).
Reality is that those who get the bookings are the artists releasing generic formula music on well known labels. I have had my share of debates with many many organizers and the conclusion was and is that they play on the "safe" horses and could not care less about the rest of the scene. Which is proven by the many international festivals booking the same names year after year for the last 10 years. As for local smaller parties the situation is they can not afford to book international artists or DJs as much as they used to and by that they book local names (which is good for the local names but not for the international artists). So at the end of the day bookings gets less and less for the "smaller" names and the monoploy are intact for the "big" names who get the majority of international bookings circulating the same organizers year after year. It got nothing to do with quality but all to do with organizers playing on safe (IMO dead) horses as they wrongly think that will ensure quality parties and good music.
As for the audience out there leeching music off torrents I will still claim 99.9% just download for the sake of having everything on their remote hard-discs no matter if they actually like the music or listen to it. None of them would ever consider buying or donating anything.
www.beatagency.dk |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 17:20
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^
I was not fantasizing about bookers/buyers. That was exactly the point of that post: I look at it from a different angle. This thread was never about how to get booked (and how difficult it is for anybody other than IM to make a buck in this scene). It was about advantages and disadvantages of having your music stolen from SoundCloud. People say that piracy is free promotion. You say 99.9% of people just download music and don't listen to it. I am saying that the remaining 0.1% is the audience you got for free. And once again, this is not about the immediate return in the form of sales or donations. Just about free publicity, which may or may not later translate into sales or bookings. |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 17:36
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On 2011-09-11 17:20, Maine Coon wrote:
^
I was not fantasizing about bookers/buyers. That was exactly the point of that post: I look at it from a different angle. This thread was never about how to get booked (and how difficult it is for anybody other than IM to make a buck in this scene). It was about advantages and disadvantages of having your music stolen from SoundCloud. People say that piracy is free promotion. You say 99.9% of people just download music and don't listen to it. I am saying that the remaining 0.1% is the audience you got for free. And once again, this is not about the immediate return in the form of sales or donations. Just about free publicity, which may or may not later translate into sales or bookings.
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We can agree on that (finally) 
Personally I am not so worried about anyone stealing my music as I do not live in La la land believing there are money to be made in this scene unless you are willing to sell your soul to the extreme commercial side of the scene. A place I would never feel at home.
I guess it's very easy. If you do not want to risk having your music stolen then dont post it on the internet or share it with anyone. Case closed
www.beatagency.dk |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 18:49
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^
Yep, tompic nailen.
If one is OK with people listening to his track from SoundCloud's server, I don't see why he would not be OK with people listening to their own local copies.
Now, when an unfinished album intended for sale gets leaked from a mastering studio - that's another issue... |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 20:08
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I never said I was not OK with it. I said I do not buy into the whole tale that because many people download your music for free it result in bookings or improved sale.
www.beatagency.dk |
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hearttricks
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
87
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 23:01
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On 2011-09-11 17:36, Beat Agency wrote:
Personally I am not so worried about anyone stealing my music as I do not live in La la land believing there are money to be made in this scene unless you are willing to sell your soul to the extreme commercial side of the scene. A place I would never feel at home.
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ah yes, here we agree.
seemed a bit like you were trying to rain on the parade tho. To me it is still cool just to have your music in the ears of people around the world. makes us all seem a little more connected.
as for the "music industry," I'm with you, man I could really give a fuck. I don't want to be a rich man, I am learning to be a teacher of mathematics to earn my keep. |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Sep 13, 2011 01:42
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well, for once beatagency, sadly and soberly i agree with you 
i WANT to release my music for free forever, and i WANT to gig and have fun, and get a chance to continue to build my vision.
I feel forever stuck in this limbo, with my aspirations hanging on some random organizers/label's approval of my music, armed just with my handcrafted DIY love against the almost corporate psy machine.
But, it is what it is. Head held up high and proud, and no rejection will turn off the glitter in the eye so easily
sucks though.
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Sep 13, 2011 01:59
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On 2011-09-11 13:30, Maine Coon wrote:
Therefore, even if 10 people actually play it - you gained 10 listeners. Your ROI is infinity.
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i just want to give another perspective on this.
for my new album, my investment is as follows:
- cut down on work hours, cutting my salary almost in half for 3 months, lets say a total "cost" of about 10000nis
- bought about 5000nis worth of new gear.
- payed money for cover art.
- payed 3500nis for mastering.
- i set aside funds of about 2000nis for payed promotions for the album.
so this album has cost me at the very very least about 22000nis. that is 4,320.44 EUR people!
now we are even not talking about the other sacrifices in time, health, energy and social life.
so this time i could afford it, but i also live in the real world, how many years, how many releases can any random person here maintain this, losing 4000e on every project?
even if i do suddenly get picked up by a big label, chances are whatever money i will get will only provide a partial return.
i would love to release it to the net for free, but it is just not correct in saying that there is no investment therefore no loss.
now, if releasing for free would bring with it legions of fans and those elusive international gigs, that would be a whole other story, but as stated by others here that is yet to be proven. net releases do provide exposure, especially for a new artist, and it brought me to wherever i am today - but the current situation shows it will only take you to a certain point.
I can testify as an owner of a (now not very active anymore) netlabel, that a ton of those download numbers are inflated. not every googleBot click on your webpage, or every actual click on your mp3 is a genuine, interested listener, a huge amount of those clicks are "trash" downloads, that is fact and can be proven by matching the click count for a certain file, with the actuual average bandwidth for each click.
if a file is 10mb, and has 1000 downloads, but the average size of each download is 2mb, it proves this, and is an internet fact not just in music. download counts are ALWAYS a distortion.
we can all just say to hell with it and make music with a freeware sequencer and some downloaded loops with a soundblaster soundcard, or drop the scene altogether and get a proper paying job and spend our energy there, but in the end, both the artists and audience lose.
so yah, sucks!
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Sep 13, 2011 02:42
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A point that rarely gets brought up:
Why do you deserve to get compensated for spending your own time and money producing something?
4300 EUR is not a lot of money in the music scene. It might be a lot for a psytrance person who's doing everything themselves...but that's a very tiny drop in a very big bucket.
Everyone acts all entitled, thinking that oh if I spend x amount of time and money then I should get a reasonable return on my investment?
It's not business, its psytrance (at least, most here is) - and psytrance, for the vast majority of its producers, doesn't amount to any money whatsoever.
It'd be one thing if you were purposefully and expressly crafting something that is intended to appeal to an audience that buys music or appeals to an audience that attends shows that makes organizers money...but it seems like you're making an album thats for you first and foremost, right?
Disclaimer: I wish everyone could get compensated for the time and money they spend on their artistic endeavours...but its not possible.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Sep 13, 2011 02:46
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dude, i have been releasing 90% of my music for free, and i will probably keep doing that.
the one thing i can be most proud of is actually being one of the first if not the first netlabel offering psytrance legally for free.
i don't feel entitled i am just stating financial facts, and yes we are basically all as you said "psytrance people doing everything themselves". that is exactly the point, and why it IS a large sum.
It is all cool when you are in your early twenties, but what if i want to, you know, get married, buy a house, get kids? 4000e supports your kid for a year. So take a person who has started when he was 20, been at it for 10 years and is just now perfecting his craft and everything is falling into place... but... real life is calling! So now you have a generation of people who have become really pro, but have to now cut down on music making or drop it altogether because they are now adults and can no longer make music from the bedroom in mom's house. please try to see the bigger picture, not everything is just about pure greed!
who said anything about deserve? this is the flow of life. if one can't sustain himself doing music professionally, then he will turn to another profession.
i am almost offended by your logic, and this is from a person like me who has embraced what the internet has to offer from day 1.
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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