Levels...

On 2011-01-27 01:03, woodster77 wrote:
ita a logarithmic scale

low frequenceies take more db to become audible
and higher freqs take less

trust me google it

there is a standard scale to fit with the human ear

then research transient behaviour or the sounds you want to work with( i use a spectrograph)

then add the two together in your own way and
this will get you working towards a clearer
mind set of mixing

ps try not to use compression too much rather focus on layering sounds to get the feel

remember if you need to boost or cut a freq by + or - 3db its not the right sound to begin with

On 2011-01-27 17:36, Freeflow wrote:
http://www.sae.edu/reference_material/audio/pages/Balance.htm

Take a look at this woodster

On 2011-01-27 17:37, woodster77 wrote:
good point...should have put in that its not USUALLY the right sound to work with

but by layering sounds you can apply different envelopes and have control over the timeline of the sound rather than treating it as another oscillator that is matched with the same settings

On 2011-01-27 17:52, aciduss wrote:
I know Tron personally, when i had the chance to learn from him, basslines were mostly Cronox2 and some careful EQ with Sonnox units.

I remember him HighPassin' bass at 36hz or even higher and kick around 30hz, he talked to me about how it would sound big enough in PA and low end could be enhaced in mastering... i was stunned by how much of the low end he removed and still managed to sound good and phat, he also carefully removed resonant frequencies from between 100 - 400 hz mainly using the sweep and notch technique to reduce harmonics in the muddy area, same technique applied to kick, he also boosted fundamental a little.

On 2011-01-27 16:14, Nomad Moon wrote:

Quote:

On 2011-01-27 15:28, disco hooligans wrote: The kick and bass of that Tron clip sound great on my HR824s. Its a good example of good sounding kick and bassline.

I think u got me wrong. I wish i could understand how he does it, i can't get that very defined sub control, i tweak and tweak and it sounds all wrong with too much subs, if i cut them it sounds thin, and problem is i don't have a clue how u do it, and this happens when i listen to your's or Wizack's tracks also, you guys basses are just perfect. I know it's a learning process but in Tron's track the kick seems to have less subs then the bass i think, do u guys agree?

On 2011-01-27 18:23, disco hooligans wrote:

Quote:

On 2011-01-27 16:14, Nomad Moon wrote: Quote: On 2011-01-27 15:28, disco hooligans wrote: The kick and bass of that Tron clip sound great on my HR824s. Its a good example of good sounding kick and bassline. I think u got me wrong. I wish i could understand how he does it, i can't get that very defined sub control, i tweak and tweak and it sounds all wrong with too much subs, if i cut them it sounds thin, and problem is i don't have a clue how u do it, and this happens when i listen to your's or Wizack's tracks also, you guys basses are just perfect. I know it's a learning process but in Tron's track the kick seems to have less subs then the bass i think, do u guys agree?

Yes, the kick does have less sub than the bass.

As far as sub goes and what I have taught my self from endless tweaking/EQing/compressing...I use the following practise on both kick and bass.
There are basically 3 different ways of controlling the sub, which I use in combination. Each way reduces the actual or apparent sub presence in either the kick or bass, but they actually sound different.

1) The obvious way, hi-pass filter. By hi-passing the bassline at say 38hz you effectively remove the really deep stuff that you don't need. Notice that as the sub goes deep, you don't actually hear the sub, you mostly feel it. The thing to consider here is the slope at which you will set the hi-pass filter. The higher the slope the more apparent the ringing/phase distortion from the inherent properties of filters. Getting a good EQ to high pass your bassline helps.

2) Compression.
I set my kick and bass compressor with an approx 20msec attack setting, meaning that when the incoming signal goes over the threshold and triggers the compressor, it allows the transient to go through (20mseconds of it) and then slams down on the "body" of the kick/bassline note. Which means the gain reduction is on the body/tail of the kick/bassline where the sub is most apparent, thus reducing it.

3) (kick/bassline) note length.
The longer the note, sustain, tail, the more the sub level. Simple example of understanding this. Make a bassline patch, quantize the notes to 1/16th and set on the bassline synth's amp envelope (ADSR) an attack of 0ms (or right before clicking), sustain at 0ms, release at 0ms (or right before clicking) and set the decay at max. Play the sequencer and start lowering the decay, you'll hear the sub starting to go out as the note gets shorter. It kinda sounds like you're hi-passing the bassline, yet the hi-pass filter frequency does not change. The sub gets less apparent as the note gets tighter.

So, a combination of the above will get you the desired kind of bassline, short tight sub, longer sustain with not a lot of sub going on (it does work in tunes where you might want the kick to do the sub work), but from hours upon hours of anal listening, I have figured out these 3 ways that actually sound different, when it comes to controlling the sub of both the kick and bassline.
Prerequisite is to find a good bassline synth/drum machine to create my bassline sound, careful kick tuning and bassline filter envelope shaping, EQing out resonances and "boxiness" of the 300-500Hz range and then getting down to sorting the subs out.

Its a procedure that I discovered 6 months ago and have followed meticulously to make the third album tunes.

Peace out.

On 2011-01-27 19:15, aciduss wrote:
Nice advice DH, appreciated.

What about synths, how much do you HP them? I usually 180hz for low synths and 220hz for higher.

On 2011-01-27 19:20, PoM wrote:
Nectarios was talking about the envelop of the synth,when tweaking it i always think to futur processing ,eq ,compression , to get a source that will need less of it .
on some bassline it can go from somthing sounding like shit to a sound that will need not much eq just with carefful tweaking of the envelop and notes lenght . it s the same for kicks,amp envelop is so powerfull to get a source that will need less eq and/or compression .