Nomad Moon
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Posted : Jan 26, 2011 13:46
The panning of the synths seems very important, generally form what i ear in my headphones from the pro's percussion is always mono and center or just bit to the side, is like you have a center line thru your skull from back to front in diferent frequencies that compliment itself.
Stil figuring out the pannings on the synhts though and the phatness
aciduss
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Posted : Jan 26, 2011 17:07
Hi, i am actually comparing with other tracks, that is exactly how i came with the question in the first place because i just cannot achieve the presence and cleanness from a pro track in the particular mater of synthlines.
Thanks for the advice, i know it has a lot to do with different issues from monitoring to fletcher and munson hearing curves...
Quote:
That is also the place where the question whIch sound goes well together with another
I once read there are basically 3 types of sounds: clean / distorted / hollow
Don't remember the source tho but it makes sense to me, most of the time I begin with one of these then add complementary sounds to get fuller result. Contrast is a very important part of music, or my music in particular.
Well thanks again you all. I'll keep on experimenting.
antidentity
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Posted : Jan 26, 2011 23:28
Quote:
On 2011-01-26 13:46, Nomad Moon wrote:
The panning of the synths seems very important, generally form what i ear in my headphones from the pro's percussion is always mono and center or just bit to the side, is like you have a center line thru your skull from back to front in diferent frequencies that compliment itself.
Stil figuring out the pannings on the synhts though and the phatness
also panning a mono percussion element to one side and panning a copy of it to the other side with the waveforms 180 degrees out of phase with each other
http://soundcloud.com/antidentity
PoM
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Posted : Jan 27, 2011 00:18
Quote:
On 2011-01-26 17:07, aciduss wrote:
Hi, i am actually comparing with other tracks, that is exactly how i came with the question in the first place because i just cannot achieve the presence and cleanness from a pro track in the particular mater of synthlines.
maybe uplaod a loop cause it s hard to understand what presence and cleanness means for you.
Kitnam
Mantik
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Posted : Jan 27, 2011 00:26
Quote:
On 2011-01-25 17:19:09, aciduss wrote:
Hi... recently i've been a little confused about the relationship between volume level of different elements.
Mostlye percussions and synths over the bassline...
My bassline usually peaks -10db...
Percussion I try to make it sound balanced, hihats, snares, claps, ohats and others... but sometimes I find it to be OK then listen next day to find it too high or too low.
Also, when synths play percussion loses a lot of presence, I have noticed this phenomenon on comercial tracks too but don't know exactly how to deal with it because i'd lower my synths levels or hishelf/cut them to let percussion show up but then they lose spark and presence...
Would like some advice or maybe even numbers to know how high should synths be, talking about general mid C3-C5 synthlines or any suggestion in workflow / mindset to decide how loud should elements be...
Long mixing sessions and playing my track over and over makes my judgement blurry and i can't objectively make decisions. Even with fresh ears I have it a little bit difficult to get a balanced level ratio between main elements.
Thanks in advance.
i dont like saying that but i dont think that numbers will help you much because the levels depend on many different and individual things like panning, timing, mix preferences, eq and so on.
when you have issues with your highs this could possibly point to an hidden issue with your sub-frequences-monitoring, because thats where you set your balance-reference when you adjust your high (drums-, hats-) frequences.
all i can say is that a good monitoring wont lead you to such a confusion. do you have your room prepared? got good monitors?
also mixbus- or mastering-compression is very dominant on recieved low-to-high-balance
as more compression as more snappy and present the highs will kick in. it could also mean that you stuck on panning or equing (way to much on top of each other) which leads to heavy stressfully fighting between the elements and make ballance-decisions unclear.
dont know how your sound sounds like just want to make clear that your problem could have the root somewhere else and fixing it could help your way to find balancing a lot.
woodster77
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Posted : Jan 27, 2011 00:40
a big part of it is understanding headroom and a thing that surprisingly no one has seemed to mention is ZERO PHON (the point at which a certain frequency becomes audible)worth googling imvho
if you take care of headroom this will increase the POLOPHONY of your mix (more tracks) n shit
Freeflow
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Posted : Jan 27, 2011 00:45
Nice thread!
woodster77 - tell more about,
"ZERO PHON (the point at frequency becomes audible)"
cause this is what i am talking about with compression. That all sounds should be heard at low volume when mixing and mastering is done.
woodster77
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Posted : Jan 27, 2011 01:03
ita a logarithmic scale
low frequenceies take more db to become audible
and higher freqs take less
trust me google it
there is a standard scale to fit with the human ear
then research transient behaviour or the sounds you want to work with( i use a spectrograph)
then add the two together in your own way and
this will get you working towards a clearer
mind set of mixing
ps try not to use compression too much rather focus on layering sounds to get the feel
remember if you need to boost or cut a freq by + or - 3db its not the right sound to begin with
woodster77
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Posted : Jan 27, 2011 01:06
theres a lot too be said for EAR TRAINING courses
every producer or engineer needs a bit of homework now and again
your ears are always in the same place
but your head can be everywhere and nowhere
also my old lecturer used to say if you turn it right down and can still hear everything its a cool mix
then he started talking maths and all i could think of was lunch
aciduss
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Posted : Jan 27, 2011 01:19
Quote:
low frequenceies take more db to become audible
and higher freqs take less
Yes those are the Fletcher-Munson curves...
I have a pair of KRK Rokit 8" monitors... my room is poorly treated, i'm moving out next month so no point in spending my money there.
Thank you all for advice, it all started with a particular track "Days in Space" Digicult vs U-Recken (2008). Most of the synthlines are just one synth over bassline but synth sounds amazingly clean and present not other words to express it PoM, i would post the video but cant access the tube here at work.
As I said before will keep experimenting and again, thanks for your kind words ppl.
woodster77
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Posted : Jan 27, 2011 01:32
ok lets play like scientists
get a good straight sine wave at 44.1kh
turn down the volume and bring it up to a nice level for you
now turn down the pitch and watch the volume
then keep going (please respect your neebs and try this when they are out)
keep going........keep going
tell me when you hit the BROWN NOTE
Nomad Moon
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Posted : Jan 27, 2011 12:08
This my example of what would like to achieve in terms of quality, if u listen on headphones, u get pretty amazed at the sound quality, the low sweep at the beginning, where did he cut it seems very low, and the kick and bass amazing, deep but not like my tracks that are blowing my ears, and this is true, yeasterday i was trying and trying to get this kinda sort of kickbass and it literally blew my left ear, i really don't know what i'm doing
Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Jan 27, 2011 15:28
The kick and bass of that Tron clip sound great on my HR824s. Its a good example of good sounding kick and bassline.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts
Freeflow
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Posted : Jan 27, 2011 16:12
Quote:
On 2011-01-27 15:28, disco hooligans wrote:
The kick and bass of that Tron clip sound great on my HR824s. Its a good example of good sounding kick and bassline.
I agree, Tannoy reveal active(old once) here.
The bass has this little flabby vivid sensation to it which makes it come alive, too many basses has this stiff compact sensation without a vivid sensation. Infact its a fine line to achieve this. But then again different basses has their place.
Nomad Moon
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Posted : Jan 27, 2011 16:14
Quote:
On 2011-01-27 15:28, disco hooligans wrote:
The kick and bass of that Tron clip sound great on my HR824s. Its a good example of good sounding kick and bassline.
I think u got me wrong. I wish i could understand how he does it, i can't get that very defined sub control, i tweak and tweak and it sounds all wrong with too much subs, if i cut them it sounds thin, and problem is i don't have a clue how u do it, and this happens when i listen to your's or Wizack's tracks also, you guys basses are just perfect. I know it's a learning process but in Tron's track the kick seems to have less subs then the bass i think, do u guys agree?
in diferent frequencies that compliment itself.
