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Level of gain reduction through mastering process?
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Seamoon
Seamoon
Started Topics :
23
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314
Posted : Feb 23, 2008 12:44:20
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What do you think (or know), how much db of gain reduction through the limiting-process is applied to the average commercial psy-songs (in the mastering process)?
If i push the limiter until i get a rms-level of about 10-12db in my mixes, he shows me a gain reduction level of about 4-6db.
Is this value ok?
Do you have any tipps how to check the mixdown, if he is ok?
  http://soundcloud.com/seamoon |
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FreakyFreQuencies
Started Topics :
1
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51
Posted : Feb 23, 2008 13:23
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Yea, it's ok. Good limiters reduced gain to 6-8dB without damage in sound.
My tip for checking mixdown is just listen it.
Ears are my oracle ;-)
When my tracks have -11 or -10dB RMS and don't sounds like a wall, I'm happy  |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
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5306
Posted : Feb 23, 2008 13:37
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FreakyFreQuencies
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
51
Posted : Feb 23, 2008 13:56
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I have sometimes possible to use Oxford Limiter, but I can't tweak him good :-(
I have problems with: Enchance, Safe Mode, Auto Gain & AutoComp. Use it or not... if yes how many of enchance?
Any sugestion for good value of these parameters?
Too many param for me, other limiters are more streight 
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
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1448
Posted : Feb 23, 2008 17:18
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Quote:
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On 2008-02-23 12:44:20, Seamoon wrote:
What do you think (or know), how much db of gain reduction through the limiting-process is applied to the average commercial psy-songs (in the mastering process)?
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There really are no rules. It all depends on the quality of the mix and the intended loudness...
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If i push the limiter until i get a rms-level of about 10-12db in my mixes, he shows me a gain reduction level of about 4-6db.
Is this value ok?
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How are you measuring the RMS? Which application? There are different ways of calculating RMS.
Also, are you looking at the RMS of the whole track (with intro and breaks) or just looking at the meters during a loud section? This will give very different results.
Discounting breaks, it should be possible to get a track up to about -12 dB RMS without any limiting or clipping. I just exported 32 bars of a project I am working on and loaded it into Audition. It gives me an RMS value of -11.2 dB FS without any limiting.
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Do you have any tipps how to check the mixdown, if he is ok?
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Listening. Anyway, the important thing is that it sounds good. Not that it is loud. If the track is good enough to be released, the label should have it mastered. That is when things can be made loud.
UnderTow
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
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1448
Posted : Feb 23, 2008 17:22
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On 2008-02-23 13:23, FreakyFreQuencies wrote:
Yea, it's ok. Good limiters reduced gain to 6-8dB without damage in sound.
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That really depends on the signal. If it is just reducing short transients, it could indeed be quite transparent. If it is limiting sustained sounds, 6 dB of limiting rarely sounds very good.
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My tip for checking mixdown is just listen it.
Ears are my oracle ;-)
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Hurray hurray!
UnderTow |
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FreakyFreQuencies
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
51
Posted : Feb 23, 2008 18:36
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Quote:
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On 2008-02-23 17:22, UnderTow wrote:
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On 2008-02-23 13:23, FreakyFreQuencies wrote:
Yea, it's ok. Good limiters reduced gain to 6-8dB without damage in sound.
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That really depends on the signal. If it is just reducing short transients, it could indeed be quite transparent. If it is limiting sustained sounds, 6 dB of limiting rarely sounds very good.
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True. When I writing about damaged sound I thinking about (bad) limiters what crash every type of sound in 2-3dB of gain reduction;-) |
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Seamoon
Seamoon
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
314
Posted : Feb 23, 2008 20:56
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| My tip for checking mixdown is just listen it.
Ears are my oracle ;-) |
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True, but sadly i wasn't born with the golden ear....
Quote:
| How are you measuring the RMS? Which application? There are different ways of calculating RMS.
Also, are you looking at the RMS of the whole track (with intro and breaks) or just looking at the meters during a loud section? This will give very different results. |
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I checked it at one of the loudest passage of the song, not the complete one (it was a chill out song btw).
And i did it with the Waves PAZ Analyzer.
http://soundcloud.com/seamoon |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Feb 24, 2008 18:43
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Quote:
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On 2008-02-23 20:56, Seamoon wrote:
Quote:
| My tip for checking mixdown is just listen it.
Ears are my oracle ;-) |
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True, but sadly i wasn't born with the golden ear....
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No-one is. Practise, practise, practise, practise, practise, practise, practise, practise, practise, practise, practise, practise, practise, practise, practise...
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Feb 24, 2008 18:56
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also you can try a cliper insteed of a limiter,i m not sure if i m right saying this but with psytrance we set the limiter so fast that it works like a cliper. |
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FreakyFreQuencies
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
51
Posted : Feb 25, 2008 15:07
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On 2008-02-23 17:18, UnderTow wrote:
How are you measuring the RMS? Which application? There are different ways of calculating RMS.
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Hmm... I always take rendered track to Wavelab and there I use offline RMS analyzer of full track.
I always think is this a right option for RMS measuring.
What is right option for RMS measuring??
Now I'm going creazy. |
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Andreh
Bash / Kernel Panic
Started Topics :
23
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690
Posted : Feb 25, 2008 21:00
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Dharma Lab
Started Topics :
8
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342
Posted : Feb 25, 2008 21:55
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I think we have to evaluate where the compression is being done to quantify this answer. I feel 4-6 dB of compression or more on individual channel or possibly groups is OK, and fairly normal.
On the master channel, or when in the mastering stage, I think 4-6 dB in general is too much. I think you should go back to the mixing stage to make the corrections necessary, where they are necessary. The lines of mixing & mastering get blurred. I will say that my understanding of tracking, mixing, & mastering into seperate tasks has improved over the years, and has likewise, improved my overall sound. I am still far from an expert, so take all of this is just one viewpoint.
I prefer much more subtle compression settings, even if that means I am compressing in multiple places. I feel that after your mixing is done, your levels for all instruments & groups sound be fairly high & consistent, and only need a little fine tuning and a very little compression, or more often, limiting, in the 1 - 3 dB range.
I'm sure there certainly are techniques that could justify a 4-6 dB on the master, but it's just not my approach.
Keep The Faith,
Christian K. |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
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779
Posted : Feb 25, 2008 22:34
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I like finalis becuase it tells you the dynamic range of the track, and how much you are altering it, which IMO is at least as important as how much you are taming the peaks.
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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