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lets laugh about it
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Chemogen
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
166
Posts :
713
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 17:55
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 19:42
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Quote:
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On 2008-03-10 23:45, bandarlog wrote:
It's a pitty you get bashed these days for making complex lines that just ca't be brought live. |
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Not at all. No-one is saying that.
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| I'd still prefer a good sounding p.a. live act where the producer is tweaking the sound/eq/channels over a real live act with 27 synths playing less earcandy synthlines 'but it was live'. |
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No-one is saying you need "27 synths playing less earcandy synthlines" for it to be live.
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| What does it make live in fact? Do you have to have someone hitting a big drum for the kick? |
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No.
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| Does a plane has to pass by during a break? |
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No.
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| Does everything has to be midi controlled with the chance of crashing? |
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No.
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| And if so: is it ok you pause 45secs (at best) between every track that runs your cpu till 80%? |
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Of course not, the dancefloor must never be deliberately left without sound. However back in the mid 90s up until 2000 our live set consisted of alternating between pure playback off DAT and our entire studio sequenced off Cubase. That's a good way of doing it if you want to have every single part of certain tracks running live.
Quote:
| edit: to make it more specific: If you make a lead using a synth/vsti. then you bounce it, work on it, stretch it, reverse, chop, bounce again, eq and place your little chops in rythm: plz tell me how this exact sequence you fooled around with for hours in your studio can be brought live with the same effect. |
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Using Ableton Live you can set things up so you have a choice about where in the track (and even in which track) that lead plays; you can also loop sections, add EQ and FX and do lots of other things to take that great piece of production and writing and make with it something new, different and unique for that performance, whilst keeping everything sounding as good as it did in the studio version.
So you see, you don't have to have every single sound in a track playing back live for your performance to be considered live music; you just have to be interacting with the music in real-time so that someone watching you play two gigs wouldn't hear exactly the same music both times in a row. Your posts show a huge resistance to the idea though, and I'm guessing it's because (assuming you play out) you do your li(v)e sets as pure playback and therefore have a vested interest in the status quo? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Quote:
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On 2008-03-14 06:45, palex wrote:
you said it all buddy!!
theres no such thing as ''live'' in psytrance!! its not humanly possible!!
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Please pull your head out of your ass, you're beginning to suffocate.
  Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 19:54
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inspiring
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 20:07
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Quote:
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On 2008-03-14 19:42, Colin OOOD wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-03-14 06:45, palex wrote:
you said it all buddy!!
theres no such thing as ''live'' in psytrance!! its not humanly possible!!
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Please pull your head out of your ass, you're beginning to suffocate.
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 thanks Colin that made my weekend.
I have a thought about this whole discussion concerning the ones who just plays one pre-rendered 90-min tracks, presses play then drinks beer or smokes blunts for 90min. which one is it, laziness or lack of musical skills to actually play a instrument in real time?
OR does anyone have another theory?
There is no way to put me on stage with a 90-min track and no interaction, Not even with all the Beer in the world, It would kill me with boredom and alcohol-intoxication  .
BTW I just got a flashback from the days when i was playing in a band, whenever we had a gig booked we rehearsed 6 days a week 3 weeks in advance before the gig to make it as tight as possible and impress the audience as much as possible. Anyone rehearsing their sets?
Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/ |
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bandarlog
Bandarlog
Started Topics :
44
Posts :
809
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 20:20
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Quote:
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On 2008-03-14 19:42, Colin OOOD wrote:
Your posts show a huge resistance to the idea though, and I'm guessing it's because (assuming you play out) you do your li(v)e sets as pure playback and therefore have a vested interest in the status quo? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Thanks for the zillion 'no's even on the ironic bits
to answer your question:
I do play 'live' allthough it is live p.a. It's not the far extreme where one (mastered) wav is playing after the other (like in lots of cases). I play 5-10 channels with the length of the whole track with each channel a seperate part of the song (like bass+kick, snares, leads, pads,...). Then I send them to efx if wanted/needed and output them to a mixer where I can eq/mix them according to the gig I'm playing (and believe me or not, you can make a serious difference by doing this and my both hands are busy doing just that).
The way you describe it you could do a live act. but that would mean my whole way of producing would be turned upside down. i don't want to write tracks completely in ableton. I work in different programs but mainly FL cause it suits my specific needs. The big downside of this program is you can't do livesets with it (memory & cpu issues). I can't load all the vsti's and effects of all the tracks at the same time.
So if I'd be producing the way you describe it, I'd be producing completely with playing live in the back of my head. This would end up in changing the whole process in such a drastic way I wouldn't be able to get as 'deep' as I can go now. What I produce at home is thought through thoroughly, timed exactly with the possibility of changing the whole thing/set per gig/set. You can compare it with people who can express themselves better when they write something when they have the time to think about what they write and people who are better in talking at the moment. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem.
So I guess I'm rather a studio producer than a live act oriented producer. But imo that doesn't mean I can't play 'live'. I'm still adjusting the music (I do have to mention I mostly play chillout with big intros and outros) according to where I'm playing, I put upfront what sounds bst at the moment. For example I play around with snares/efx/bandpass sweeps/bass/kick/turn off/on stuff that is or isn't suitable at the moment etc...
And plz do not offend me with "lie sets". It's no because there's something between a dj set, a live set and what the p.a. man is normally doing that doesn't have a word yet (live p.a. isn't used very often) that it means I'm lying about my set. I'm the first to explain what exactly I'm doing and I think I'm still entitled to bring my own music to the public as much as any dj does with other people's music. I'm not turning knobs that have no effect nor am I bringing synthesizers with no purpose. Everything I do when playing "live" has a genuine purpose of making the music suitable and better for the people and place where I'm playing.
edit: And if it were up to me the 'gap' between dj and live would filled up with a different concept. i'm not playing live for the ego-thing, for people seeing me dance or seeing me at all. if it were up to me I'd rather have a cool vj-set playing(far more interesting to watch than any live act/dj playing if you ask me) set up for my specific set with me in a darkened corner doing the same thing as I'm doing now: playing a set of my own music and make it sound as good as possible. Since I'm not a dj I couldn't do that or it wouldn't be 'right' or a 'lie' if you follow the opinion of a lot of people here.
http://www.soundcloud.com/bandarlog
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/bandarlog-memoirs-of-the-moment |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 20:35
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Sounds to me then like you do indeed play very LIVE, and good on you. But I wasn't trying to describe any particular way of writing or performing, just trying to answer your point about how a complex lead line with lots of production on it can be used in a live context.
The reason I sometimes refer to pure playback sets as "li(v)e sets" is because when the flyer or the artist refers to them as being 'live', that's what is happening - a lie. I'm not saying that people who want to do things that way shouldn't do it (even if - in my opinion - their motives for wanting to be on that stage in that case are questionable), but I AM saying that we have to stop referring to sets like that as 'live', because they're not! As I have said before many times, there are other ways of promoting these sets that are just as cool, like "Producer Set", but which don't devalue the hard work people like Shpongle, Hallucinogen, S.U.N. Project, Star Sounds Orchestra, Tom Cosm, Hilight Tribe and even Infected Mushroom etc. put into their performances.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 20:37
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Seppa
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
485
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 23:07
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hehe ! just spend some time on youtube...
Colin, Nose flower ?!!! lol !  |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Mar 15, 2008 01:04
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psylevation
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
841
Posted : Mar 16, 2008 19:38
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Quote:
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On 2008-03-14 20:07, vegetal wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-03-14 19:42, Colin OOOD wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-03-14 06:45, palex wrote:
you said it all buddy!!
theres no such thing as ''live'' in psytrance!! its not humanly possible!!
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Please pull your head out of your ass, you're beginning to suffocate.
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thanks Colin that made my weekend.
I have a thought about this whole discussion concerning the ones who just plays one pre-rendered 90-min tracks, presses play then drinks beer or smokes blunts for 90min. which one is it, laziness or lack of musical skills to actually play a instrument in real time?
OR does anyone have another theory?
There is no way to put me on stage with a 90-min track and no interaction, Not even with all the Beer in the world, It would kill me with boredom and alcohol-intoxication .
BTW I just got a flashback from the days when i was playing in a band, whenever we had a gig booked we rehearsed 6 days a week 3 weeks in advance before the gig to make it as tight as possible and impress the audience as much as possible. Anyone rehearsing their sets?
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Thats what I believe is exactly the key to performing. I've been in bands before too. We always rehearsed our sets before the show as much as possible. This way we knew the parts we were going to play well and were very practiced at it.
It should be the same with psytrance bands(or individuals). Things should be rehearsed and in that way you can practice that really difficult synth part over and over again until you can nail it every time. Then you perform it live, simple as that.
If you have to, write it and print out the Score Sheet so you play it the same every time, with the notes right in front of you.
~Airyck~
~Unoccupied Mind ~
Psyowa! |
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palex
Palex
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
476
Posted : Mar 17, 2008 13:04
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Quote:
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On 2008-03-14 19:42, Colin OOOD wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-03-10 23:45, bandarlog wrote:
It's a pitty you get bashed these days for making complex lines that just ca't be brought live. |
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Not at all. No-one is saying that.
Quote:
| I'd still prefer a good sounding p.a. live act where the producer is tweaking the sound/eq/channels over a real live act with 27 synths playing less earcandy synthlines 'but it was live'. |
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No-one is saying you need "27 synths playing less earcandy synthlines" for it to be live.
Quote:
| What does it make live in fact? Do you have to have someone hitting a big drum for the kick? |
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No.
Quote:
| Does a plane has to pass by during a break? |
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No.
Quote:
| Does everything has to be midi controlled with the chance of crashing? |
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No.
Quote:
| And if so: is it ok you pause 45secs (at best) between every track that runs your cpu till 80%? |
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Of course not, the dancefloor must never be deliberately left without sound. However back in the mid 90s up until 2000 our live set consisted of alternating between pure playback off DAT and our entire studio sequenced off Cubase. That's a good way of doing it if you want to have every single part of certain tracks running live.
Quote:
| edit: to make it more specific: If you make a lead using a synth/vsti. then you bounce it, work on it, stretch it, reverse, chop, bounce again, eq and place your little chops in rythm: plz tell me how this exact sequence you fooled around with for hours in your studio can be brought live with the same effect. |
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Using Ableton Live you can set things up so you have a choice about where in the track (and even in which track) that lead plays; you can also loop sections, add EQ and FX and do lots of other things to take that great piece of production and writing and make with it something new, different and unique for that performance, whilst keeping everything sounding as good as it did in the studio version.
So you see, you don't have to have every single sound in a track playing back live for your performance to be considered live music; you just have to be interacting with the music in real-time so that someone watching you play two gigs wouldn't hear exactly the same music both times in a row. Your posts show a huge resistance to the idea though, and I'm guessing it's because (assuming you play out) you do your li(v)e sets as pure playback and therefore have a vested interest in the status quo? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Quote:
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On 2008-03-14 06:45, palex wrote:
you said it all buddy!!
theres no such thing as ''live'' in psytrance!! its not humanly possible!!
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Please pull your head out of your ass, you're beginning to suffocate.
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wow...if u think that all is possible,try to stick an umbrella up ur ass and open it!!
if u succeed,i believe u can do a true live act,with no pre-recorded stuff,making all tracks from zero,just like u release them!
peace
keep music evil!! |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Mar 17, 2008 15:27
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Palex as long as the people on stage are actually doing something in real-time with the music coming out of the speakers - creating at least something new on stage to work with the music they have previously prepared, they are playing live. I think a lot of people would agree with me that this can't just be messing with the EQ on the stereo WAV playing back off your laptop! No-one, least of all me, is expecting every single sound to be performed in real-time. That is blatantly impossible (unless maybe you're Highlight Tribe).
I'll say it again as you seem to be a little hard of thinking:
If an act is doing something in real-time with the music coming out of the speakers - creating at least something new on stage to work with the music they have previously prepared, they are playing live.
So, Palex, your name is in blue - please tell us how you run your liveset?
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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palex
Palex
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
476
Posted : Mar 17, 2008 16:42
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i respect ur opinion when u say that any new sound is triggered makes it ''live-act''.
but u gotta respect my opinion when i say live-act is doing everything from zero,thats what i believe,maybe im wrong,but thats my way of seeing things.
maybe we gotta give another name to psytrance ''lives''(or any electronic style),but sure is not 100% live!
btw,when somebody ask me to play at a party,i always say:
i only do live mixed sets,are u sure u wanna book me?
i even make sure that info comes in the flyer.
promoters dont like it very much,but in the end and till now,they all agree!
i only mix,thats what im doing for 15 years,and no midi sistem or piece of software thats gonna make change my mind!
hope u can understand that colin,knowing that i respect ur defenition of ''live'',eventrough i disagree with it.
peace
paulo
keep music evil!! |
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-aeon-
Aeon
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
546
Posted : Mar 17, 2008 17:24
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^
Quote:
| The first OOOD album aLIVE was released on Cabbaged Records (UK) in 1997 and was probably the first ever live album released as a debut by a psy-trance act. A stunning exposition of the unique psychedelic sound of OOOD, the album was recorded live - and we mean LIVE - at parties across the UK including Pagan's fabled New Years Eve party, Science Fiction and Otherworld at the Fridge in London. |
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http://www.triskelemanagement.com/oood/
i rehearse my live sets... and until i figured out how to control levels i would do a soundcheck too.
up until early 2007 i loaded every individual project in ableton... when a track finished, i would use a mixer to bring in a .wav of atmospheres/ambient sounds while i waited for the next project to load. then i would check the midi cc assignments, and play the new track.
it was a complete fuckup, actually, because the dancefloor didn't appreciate having 30 second breaks between tracks. even with my dualcore, even freezing and rendering down stuff into subgroups... it was just too much computing.
so i looked at what i could achieve and what i was actually doing. there was no point loading up a 60-channel project if i was only tweaking two!
these days i have about 8 synth channels and 8 violin channels armed. i then toggle inbetween depending on what i'm playing. there will also be a few global effects as well.
i've recently got a horribly swollen bone in my left hand which is freaking me the fuck out... i daren't play violin because i'm worried about it. i haven't been able to practice for about 2 months now, and so at the last gig i played i didn't take the violin. i'd rather not use it than just use it twice in an hour for show purposes.
but you know what? i felt like less of a 'live' act because of it. even though on a good day i might only play it for 5 minutes out of 60 anyway. it's weird, because i've always felt that one of the strengths of 'the scene' is that people who don't have any musical training per se can produce and perform.
i think we should be in favour of fuckups.... as all musicians know, mistakes often turn out to be the things we treasure most.
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Mar 17, 2008 18:15
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Quote:
| btw,when somebody ask me to play at a party,i always say:
i only do live mixed sets,are u sure u wanna book me?
i even make sure that info comes in the flyer.
promoters dont like it very much,but in the end and till now,they all agree!
i only mix,thats what im doing for 15 years,and no midi sistem or piece of software thats gonna make change my mind!
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Ok so you're one of the fakers, no wonder you insist that it can't be done live.
I totally disagree with your definition of 'live', because it is utterly unreasonable to expect a single person to recreate every aspect of a track live on stage. All I'm asking is that you keep busy whilst you're up there and work for your fee whilst giving the dancefloor a taste of your creativity as an artist. As long as the people on stage are performing some kind of music live, then there is a live performance going on, whether or not every single sound is being played in real-time.
There certainly needs to be a new name for the kind of set you do, and 'live' is NOT it. You're deceiving the audience when you put that on flyers, and given that the promoters you work with know what you do on stage, I'm not surprised they're not very happy with it.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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