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lets laugh about it
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Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
1748
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 04:29
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seriously, Im partying to the music, not the tweaking of the knobs etc. So much psy is sequenced with such precision that it is not possible to present it live in the same way.
You can either focus on making tracks or u can focus on making a liveset. Its nice to have some interaction with the music, but you shouldnt need to trig channels individually live to be considered a nice liveact...?
Im with Bandarlog on this one...
  http://www.myspace.com/fragletrollet
http://www.myspace.com/unknowncausesound
http://www.fragletrollet.com/ |
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
584
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 09:24
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+1 on all points
the definition of a true electronic live act back to the early days of kraftwerk, ashra temple, etc consist of any number of MIDI sequences along with any number of samples. once the sequencer was introduced it made playing the material redundant, so that the bands were instead playing with combinations of sequences
imo, if you have even one synth running live midi, even if it is a soft synth, then by definition it is live.
as Glitch said, ideally you would want to have it so that you can leave it and it will still play, but if you want to fuck it up, mix, or change something on the fly, you can also do that.
regarding Live, I need to say it, there is NOTHING that you can do with Live that you cannot do with any other sequencer, buses, FX, and all. I'm sorry just sometimes I get sick of hearing about this program...
lastly I always give respect to live acts even if there is some chicanery, due to the fact of time spent in the studio. hey we don't get out much, so when we get on stage, we need to act a little crazy imo 
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 12:37
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exacly my point
its realy easy to come up on stage and make loop trigerring and on the fly fx , but it also sound like it , while ready tracks sound soooo much better.
i meen hey , i can open fruity loops now with 0 prepartion and make those "170 bpm hardcore all in distortion and nothing is intresting" full live , even making the patterns and build the sounds from scracth and initial patches lol
but i realy rather present the best sounds , and imo with my music its still not available in full live as i wish simply cause i dont have the money for it (can jean michelle jarre make his amazing live act with ableton?? lol , but realy personly i dont even have money for new laptop and soundcard)
but hey im happy to bring my nord to the party and make them "wiowio" fx's with the mixer reverb if it makes anyone more happy.
and btw , if someone actualy just touching knobs that do nothing , then yeah , laugh out loud. but actualy as playing with cds not mixed from home , i only have about 2 minutes in a track not to be busy with cue points , beat matching , eq's , effects etc. www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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neuromantik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
593
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 15:16
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Quote:
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On 2008-03-13 09:24, the daleks wrote:
imo, if you have even one synth running live midi, even if it is a soft synth, then by definition it is live.
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Of course that is sufficient but let's face it, 98% of "live" acts don't even do that. I'm sorry but playing a huge WAV file isn't an instrument, playing many smaller ones within a host or a sampler is. I don't see why all you advocates get all hot and bothered when people show that they're fed up with faking. No one is asking that every effect, woosh, dog bark sample, arpeggiated synth line be manipulated, only a few or at the very least one. Is that too much to ask?
I can name a couple of things that a human can do that a machine (ie sequencer) can't. Make mistakes. Improvise. There is such thing as the human element, and perhaps you haven't been to too many amateur rock concerts or live jazz performances but when a "musician" misses a break and makes up for it with a funny ornament here and there it adds an organic quality to the music that I'm sorry to say most psy producers either have never experienced or choose to ignore. All of you keep on talking about strict precision, best sound quality with no room for fiddling or noodling or any other creativity. Just because the music is electronic doesn't mean it has to be rocket science. Why so much precision? This is art for christ sake.
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neuromantik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
593
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 15:25
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I just want to add that real "live" acts do not need to measure up to Jean Michel Jarre or Tangerine Dream standards of live electronic music. I've heard great things about Son Kite, I've seen Cosm's live videos and that definetly shows promise. Even Tim Schuldt's live is 90% playback, but that 10% where he's banging away at his guitar adds so much energy and heaviness I believe it really is worth the extra effort learning your instrument and practising.
Of course established live acts like Medecine Drum, SUN Project, OOOD, Hilight Tribe and so one I will not go into since not only are they numerous on stage (it helps!) but they make it their goal to produce a blend of organic, ethnic or rock style trance which is supposed to be played live. My hat goes off to them  |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 18:04
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Quote:
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On 2008-03-13 15:16, neuromantik wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-03-13 09:24, the daleks wrote:
imo, if you have even one synth running live midi, even if it is a soft synth, then by definition it is live.
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Of course that is sufficient but let's face it, 98% of "live" acts don't even do that. I'm sorry but playing a huge WAV file isn't an instrument, playing many smaller ones within a host or a sampler is. I don't see why all you advocates get all hot and bothered when people show that they're fed up with faking. No one is asking that every effect, woosh, dog bark sample, arpeggiated synth line be manipulated, only a few or at the very least one. Is that too much to ask?
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+1
If there's no interaction with the music, it's not a 'live performance' and shouldn't be described as one. I think the term 'producer set' has just as much kudos as it tells people the music being played has all been written by the act in question and is a more honest description to boot.
Bottom line is if the people doing pure playback live sets didn't know they were cheating and taking the easy way out then they wouldn't feel the need to lie about what they do by calling it 'live'.
Regain your integrity. Regain the respect of your peers in the scene. Be proud of what you do. By all means play your playback set - just don't lie and tell us you're playing live 
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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OpenSourceCode
Datavore
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
660
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 19:37
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having just played a very very live act that went totally tits-up, I can say with some certainty that 99% of the crowd does not give a damn whether you are "really live" or not. they just want to shake their booties. And if you drop the beat because you were trying to do something "live" they are not so happy. The only people who actually care about how live your show is are the three dudes who played before you, and are now standing behind you watching your computer screen like hawks. ie you guys 
which is not to say that i'm gonna stop playing live, but i think it's dishonest to act like everybody cares about how live a live act is. most people just came to dance, you know? |
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Seppa
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
485
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 19:59
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Quote:
| having just played a very very live act that went totally tits-up, I can say with some certainty that 99% of the crowd does not give a damn whether you are "really live" or not. they just want to shake their booties. And if you drop the beat because you were trying to do something "live" they are not so happy. The only people who actually care about how live your show is are the three dudes who played before you, and are now standing behind you watching your computer screen like hawks. ie you guys
which is not to say that i'm gonna stop playing live, but i think it's dishonest to act like everybody cares about how live a live act is. most people just came to dance, you know? |
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how would you feel about a dj who edited on ableton or wavelab an hour and half of dj set. just copy paste tracks one after another with perfect changes. And just pressed play on his cdj for the whole set. pretty outrageous don't you think.
What is the difference between a good dj and an average guy. In my opinion its the interaction with the crowd. Its knowing what to play at the right time even though you do have a program. I'm not gonna be a hypocrite and tell that nothing should be preprogrammed but there is got to be a bit of randomness , something a bit spontaneous.
I think for live it should be the same there is got to be that element. How its done its the artist buisness, i' m no sensor. One cannot playback an audiofile for the whole performance and and keep a straigh face while calling it live performance. Unless doing the clown tweaking knobs that don't do shit is the actual performance. But then maybe they should have chosen another field like the circus. We might as well call anyone to play that set since it prerecorded in fact I've seen this many time. They don't even show up instead someone else plays the audiofile... should ask for a refund. |
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Zoopy
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
44
Posts :
538
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 20:40
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Also, you have to remember that sometimes the artist have no control over how their set is promoted. I've talked to many artists which were advertised as 'live' when they were simply djing and never mentioned anything about playing 'live'. |
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neuromantik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
593
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 22:12
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Quote:
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On 2008-03-13 19:37, OpenSourceCode wrote:
having just played a very very live act that went totally tits-up, I can say with some certainty that 99% of the crowd does not give a damn whether you are "really live" or not. they just want to shake their booties. And if you drop the beat because you were trying to do something "live" they are not so happy. The only people who actually care about how live your show is are the three dudes who played before you, and are now standing behind you watching your computer screen like hawks. ie you guys
which is not to say that i'm gonna stop playing live, but i think it's dishonest to act like everybody cares about how live a live act is. most people just came to dance, you know?
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I'm sorry but I don't have the same experiences as you... I've "introduced" many people who were part of different scenes (rock, dub, ebm, electro) who while not completely psychedelic at heart were very intrigued and blown away by the music I played for them.. Well all of them with no exceptions remarked on the fact that the "artists" did very little apart for dancing and smoking and drinking and just partying like the public.. Some didn't mind but most percieved it as a general unprofessionalism on the part of the artists and promoters (these were 20€+ parties I might add).
No other genre to my knowledge suffers such a bad reputation of lazyness when it comes to live music. Ok psytrance is much more layered and complicated, all thoses excuses are old and tired. |
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OpenSourceCode
Datavore
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
660
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 03:59
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Like I said, I'm gonna keep my live set really live because that's the kind of shows I like to see. I always remember the shows that were really, truly live (@ Colin- your show in the park in Brooklyn last year comes to mind) and pay more attention to those producers than many others. So maybe they will do the same for me
But I really don't think that too many trancers, aside from us producers, care what you're doing on the stage, as long as the music is good and they can dance.
and also, remember to turn off your screen saver before you play if your live set doesn't use the mouse very often! |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 05:10
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i have HUGE question ..
does mixing only original tracks in ableton , change the order of tracks on the fly no ready mix from home
+fxs on top (flangers delays reverbs pitch bend etc.)
+ filters and eq on each output channel
+looping parts
+trigger synth (midi lines or real live tweek/play or just whooosh fx's)
+ drining some beer and smile to the ladies , and have a laugh with the hawks behind you
is that full live act in your opinion?
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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OpenSourceCode
Datavore
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
660
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 05:57
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yes? |
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palex
Palex
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
476
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 06:45
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Quote:
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On 2008-03-10 23:45, bandarlog wrote:
It's a pitty you get bashed these days for making complex lines that just ca't be brought live. Live acts still seem to be measured by rock terms: what is he PLAYING live... Is he really playing that line or is the arpeggio running? etc.
I'd still prefer a good sounding p.a. live act where the producer is tweaking the sound/eq/channels over a real live act with 27 synths playing less earcandy synthlines 'but it was live'.
What does it make live in fact? Do you have to have someone hitting a big drum for the kick? Does a plane has to pass by during a break? Does everything has to be midi controlled with the chance of crashing? And if so: is it ok you pause 45secs (at best) between every track that runs your cpu till 80%?
edit: to make it more specific: If you make a lead using a synth/vsti. then you bounce it, work on it, stretch it, reverse, chop, bounce again, eq and place your little chops in rythm: plz tell me how this exact sequence you fooled around with for hours in your studio can be brought live with the same effect.
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you said it all buddy!!
theres no such thing as ''live'' in psytrance!! its not humanly possible!!
keep music evil!! |
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
584
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 14:20
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>neuromantik & Colin
we are in accordance then. my point was that there should be at least on track running midi, i'm down on running stereo tracks as well. i've seen it before and its pretty weak....
its no extra processing power to bus out a few midi tracks of uncritical material, and at little risk, so imo theres no excuse for not doing it other than laziness or unwillingness
there simply must and should be some interaction with the music or machines running the music, imo thats the fun of it too
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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