| Author
|
LEARNING
|
DJ YARU
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
19
Posted : Jan 25, 2005 08:04
|
HI FRIENDS
WHICH MUSICALS INSTRUMENTS SHOULD I LEARN BEFORE TRYING TO MAKE MUSIC?
I KNOW THAT I ALSO NEED TALENT.
ALL THE ANSWERS WILL HELP ME.
THANKS. |
|
|
crackerjap
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
46
Posted : Jan 25, 2005 10:10
|
learn to play the computer
and dont forget to get some talent too. there are some good deals on ebay... |
|
|
|
Flake_of_Freedom
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
61
Posts :
414
Posted : Jan 25, 2005 12:09
|
Organ piano is a good instrument to learn in start.
That is the basis of all instruments... and will be much easier to play other instruments after you know this.
Be sure to inspire yourself with theoretical music background, it helps too.
Good luck,
bom!
|
|
|
|
billy ambulance
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
43
Posts :
560
Posted : Jan 25, 2005 12:09
|
most electronic music is written on keyboard.
piano is a good instrument to learn the basics of music in general.
|
|
|
|
sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Jan 25, 2005 12:26
|
men, i would forget about learning "classic" instruments...
just get a simple sequencer/studio like frutty loopz and start experimenting
|
|
|
|
billy ambulance
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
43
Posts :
560
Posted : Jan 25, 2005 15:27
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-01-25 12:26, sy000321 wrote:
men, i would forget about learning "classic" instruments...
just get a simple sequencer/studio like frutty loopz and start experimenting
|
|
dont listen to "ameatur" advises man!
learn as much as you can, instrument, music theory, music history.. all of those will improve you and wil put you in a much better state than some fruty tracker..
|
|
|
|
DJ YARU
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
19
Posted : Jan 25, 2005 16:29
|
Thx a lot friends! Im very glad to see your answers! 
Ill look for a professional teacher and first learn deeply music like playing songs from differents styles and after try my first step on production.
cheers  |
|
|
|
NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Jan 25, 2005 16:45
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-01-25 12:26, sy000321 wrote:
men, i would forget about learning "classic" instruments...
just get a simple sequencer/studio like frutty loopz and start experimenting
|
|
haha! yeah right...
The basis of electronic music came originally from classical music... and the wish to use different 'timbres' instead of the instruments already given: thus 'Music Concrete' from France and the synthetic experiments from Germany.
Also how can you make 'music' in the literal definition of it, if you know no theory or scales or styles!
if i didn't have my classical background i wouldn't know how to structure and create my music the way that I do...
Look at famous artists as well with classical backgrounds: Infected Mushroom, Miraculix etc.
DJ Yaru! Good Luck, and enjoy the learning process 
Peace |
|
|
|
sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Jan 25, 2005 17:09
|
Quote:
|
On 2005-01-25 16:45, NikC wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2005-01-25 12:26, sy000321 wrote:
men, i would forget about learning "classic" instruments...
just get a simple sequencer/studio like frutty loopz and start experimenting
|
|
haha! yeah right...
The basis of electronic music came originally from classical music... and the wish to use different 'timbres' instead of the instruments already given: thus 'Music Concrete' from France and the synthetic experiments from Germany.
Also how can you make 'music' in the literal definition of it, if you know no theory or scales or styles!
if i didn't have my classical background i wouldn't know how to structure and create my music the way that I do...
Look at famous artists as well with classical backgrounds: Infected Mushroom, Miraculix etc.
DJ Yaru! Good Luck, and enjoy the learning process
Peace
|
|
only half truths here
yes... kraftwerk did have classical knowledge but many more of their decade (and before didn't)
most of what you'll learn in classical music will only get in the way...
knowing how to use scales, modes, progressions, etc. might help but is not necessary
go straight to what is usefull for you...
one of the best poets ever, didn't know how to write, and that didn't prevent him being remembered after his death for his poems...
also, to be a classical artist takes a lot of years... can you afford to wait 8-10 years? or do you want to have a track this summer? 
also classical trainning is by the european rules... most psycadelic artists get their chops from arabic and asian rules, don't they? |
|
|
|
NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Jan 25, 2005 17:30
|
well... in terms of Indian and Arabic music... I have learnt enough about that to know what its about:
Raga scales, tala rhythms, the way the indian instrumentation works with Drones = Tambura Raga scales of 12 (almost chromatic notes) from sitar etc...
and i know this because its part of 'classical' eastern music... its what musicians from India did instead of baroque, romantic etc.
as with arabic music, the same thing applies...
I wrote a whole composition this year based on the rhythms of the Darbuka drum, if it weren't for my classical training, i wouldn't know about that either!
you don't need to be a professional classical musician to make music having worked on it your whole life... you just need knowledge of the basics and origins of all kinds of music!
Also:
You say that one of the best poets ever (who???) could not write... in this case that would be like an artist not being able to use cubase but who could still create melodies!
He knew how to speak and use words properly (classically you could say), and that was learnt... its the same with the basics of music! Hope you get what I mean.
I feel you have to work for your music... its the easy way out to put some random FX over a 16th bassline, compress it fuckloads and have it released... If you want to make music that will last, make it properly and take time over it; and you don't need to wait for 8-10 years to learn abit about classical music.
Also for your information: There are no "European Rules" for classical training:
They are different everywhere in europe that you go... the Conservatoirs of England, France and Germany all teach completely differently (and even have different names for notes eg. a 'B flat' in english is an 'Hb' in German).
You should understand what you criticise before you say it is not useful!
Peace
|
|
|
|
sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Jan 25, 2005 17:48
|
i think i made my point, you should try to understand it...
most people around the world (since there are more asians and africans than europeans) use diferent rules and notation than what is taught in europe, also diferent temperaments and so on...
B is the same as Si also
most of what you'll learn is useless if you go a classical path
most classical studyes are more directed towards interpretation than composition and creativity
of course classical is a very broad term... classical, in the classical aception, means "perfect"
the biggest problem with classical musician is that they stop playing once you take the staff away from him (lol)
"I feel you have to work for your music" you say... it almost sounds like you say "you must suffer for music"
also, most classical teachers will not understand your goals and may even make you feal you're going for a "smaller" form of art...
it is frustrating to try to learn with someone who won't understand our goals...
i would recomend the "spiral raven guide to music theory" as being better than any other classical book or guide...
NikC, dont' mean to offend you or anything... but knowing the names of notes won't make you play, compose or arrange better...
thanks,
joão |
|
|
|
NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Jan 25, 2005 18:02
|
I understand you completely man...
Its true, classical training can close the creative doors in some ways,
Thats why I don't play classically properly anymore!
But, some concepts I personally feel are very important and can be incorporated into making all kinds of music.
I don't like classical for a couple of reasons:
that the teaching is automatically "high-brow" and over-important, but the fundamentals have been incredibly useful for me!
Its true that if you know the scales it doesn't mean you can create incredible melodies, but, if you don't know them it is more difficult to (imo)
"work for music" was meant along the lines of... do exactly what you want to do...
and to create exactly what you want to is difficult.
Luckily, my classical teachers understood (I was on a music scholarship before, playing Bassoon, classical Piano, Jazz Piano and Percussion before) that electronic music was the developing method of expression and encouraged me to compose and create electronically and electroacoustically...
Still, if a classical teacher knows their stuff; they will know of Karlheinz Stockhausen who studied under Messaien with composers like Pierre Boulez, and Stockhausen pioneered classical electronic music with compositions like Kontakte etc.
I do understand what you say Sy, i felt the same way before, that classical was restricting:
but now that i focus more on Electronics, i appreciate more what i learnt before...
Peace |
|
|
|
sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Jan 25, 2005 18:08
|
i can say that i'm against formal classical trainning... in most places it didn't change much since 1100 when, i think, most notation was invented
however, knowing how to use scales, chords, knowing what is an octave, fifth, third and so on can help A LOT (i mentioned this earlyer)
i agree with you
|
|
|
|
Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Jan 25, 2005 18:50
|
I think you are both right.
Theoretical knowledge can be limiting as well as liberating.
If you have a good musical ear I would think that you quickly figure out what notes fit together in a scale.
If you don't or want to speed up the process find learn some scales you like to use.
That's really not hard at all.
Chords is of course a bit more complex, but again it's easy to hear if some notes sound good together or not.
Sure you could start getting in to contrapunctus to try to learn theoretically how to write a good melody. I would not think it's really something you need to get into for making trance though.
Better to practice writing melodies and learn from trial and error IMO.
Unless you love the theory and would not feel daunted by studying it properly.
In both trance and most pop/rock the best melodies according to my taste is very simple and would not require the composer to know any theory.
Classical is of course different, but I can say I like trance trying to be mozart myself.
Feeling is on the other hand important and a piano roll does not need to be the best way to get a sense of melodies, so it can probably be useful to pick up an instrument or start humming/singing to explore melodic possibilities.
I studied theory a lot when I was young and can't really say if I feel it is useful for me nowadays.
After years of using a piano roll instead of notation I don't remember the names of all chords and scales anymore, but still have a feeling of what notes will fit together from experience.
Sometimes I can envy people that really have to struggle to find notes that come together to a nice melody though.
The process of experimenting to figure it out seems a lot more creative to me than doing things based on knowledge or experience.
The production theory is something that I'm more aware of still, and that I feel can really get in the way manytimes.
It's so easy to start doing things on routine because you know it should be good instead of just using you ears.
So...basically I don't know what I think
I got in to both music theory and production as a kid and would probably be frustrated sometimes if I didn't already know it.
But the only times I really notice the knowledge is when I feel it gets in the way, otherwise it's just there.
But enjoy the innocence while it last I would say, because you probably miss it when it's gone.
 (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
|
|
|
sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Jan 25, 2005 19:48
|
consonance and dissonance are still a matter of taste...
...formal learning teaches that diminished fifths are dissonant... but in my tracks i use them a lot because i like the feel of it...
some times it's usefull to know wich notes sound better... even if you won't follow that reasoning |
|
|
|
